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Thread: How Egyptians looked to Foreigners2929 days old

  1. #11
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    Some of these posts are off topic, there's another thread for that.

    Hercules got depicted as anything from Greek to Egyptian though in Greek mythos his parents were both Egyptian.

    Here is Herakles slaying lower Egyptians who look pretty African:

    [imglink]http://www.cirp.org/library/history/hodges2/hodges29.jpg[/imglink]

    closeup:

    [imglink]http://www.uncg.edu/cla/slides/herakbusirdet.jpg[/imglink]

    Black Herakles stranglin fools (Egyptians):

    [imglink]http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Mythology/Images/HeraclesBusiris.jpg[/imglink]

    Egyptian officers patrol, on the other side of the vase:

    [imglink]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l170/zuluMaster/BlogPhotos/Etruscan_Egyptians.jpg[/imglink]
    Last edited by EclectYummination; 2011-08-17 at 20:29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    As you can see, the Ancient Egyptians were certainly not depicted as black and were clearly seperated from Ethiopians and such phenotypically.
    FYI, in ancient times "Ethiopian" referred to all sub-Saharans, not just people from modern day Ethiopia. If I'm not mistaken, "Ethiopian" was often synonymous with the Sudanese as they were closest to the outside world, and the Axumites only temporarily used the term after they had conquered the area located between Egypt and Axum, i.e. Sudan. After the rise of Axum, people from Eritrea/Ethiopia would have been referred to as Axumite or Abyssinian.

    Prior to the rise of Axum, Egyptians had contacts with the people of "the Land of Punt", an area located to the south of Egypt, where the people were regarded by Egyptians as their kin. Punt is usually (but not always) placed on the African side of the Red Sea.

    Some of the darker Egyptians would probably have been indistinguishable from Horners in the eyes of Europeans, anyway.

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    Correct! "Ethiopia" and "Libya" were both used in reference to Africa. Traditionally, "Libya" was used in association with the entire continent... " Leuco-Libyans" with regard to swarthy skinned North Africans and "Ethiopians" with regard to black skinned Africans. "Ethiopians" was originally exclusively only used in reference to the "Ancient Nubians", but the term expanded over time.

    And the Land of Punt has been confirmed to have been located in what is now the Eastern Sudan, Eritrea, and Northern Ethiopia.

    Disputes over Punt's location have gone on for decades. Punt (pronounced Poont), archaeologists have said, was in Mozambique, or Somalia; or on the Sinai Peninsula or in Yemen, or somewhere in Western Asia where Israel, Lebanon and Syria now lie.

    Narrowing the search
    At a recent meeting in Oakland of the American Research Center in Egypt three scientists announced with confidence they had ruled out all of those five locations, and there was no disagreement from the 300 archaeologists there.

    The Land of Punt, the scientist said, must have existed in NE Africa - either in the region where Ethiopia and Eritrea confront each other, or east of the Upper Nile in a lowland area of eastern Sudan.

    The three experts, all specialists in arcane disciplines, were:

    -- Nathaniel J. Dominy, a UC Santa Cruz anthropologist and primate ecologist who studies the lives and habitats of apes, baboons and other monkeys, as well as human evolution;

    -- Gillian Leigh Moritz, a specialist in manipulating the mass spectrometer in Dominy's laboratory to analyze the stable isotopes of oxygen and other elements;

    -- Kathryn A. Bard, a Boston University Egyptologist who for nearly 10 years has been excavating the ancient Red Sea harbor of Wadi Gawassis, where royal sailing expeditions were sent to Punt and returned with precious cargo.
    http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-05-0...uman-evolution

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    Hellenistic art depicting Kemetian native:

    [imglink]http://www.shunpiking.com/bhs2007/image/OP-statue.jpg[/imglink]

    The Egyptian Pharaoh in Phoenician art:

    [imglink]http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/6972/moreshortwigsqe8.jpg[/imglink]

    **

    Notice the distinct Hairstyle of 3 Kemetian natives (compared to other blacks) depicted below, the first two in Hellenic art:

    [imglink]http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/tyfoonmc/DSC_0096.jpg?t=1254775220[/imglink]

    [imglink]http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/tyfoonmc/DSC_0093.jpg?t=1254775407[/imglink]

    [imglink]http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/tyfoonmc/DSC_0423.jpg?t=1254775629[/imglink]

    (Immediate bove is infact not a foreign style of art but a native Kemetian relief)

    Below, tree European "blacks" (like me ) and the fourth an apparently Kushite one (imo Kushite anyway, with the locks):

    [imglink]http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/tyfoonmc/DSC_0099.jpg?t=1254776278[/imglink]

    [imglink]http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/tyfoonmc/DSC_0100a.jpg?t=1254776346[/imglink]

    [imglink]http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/tyfoonmc/DSC_0098.jpg?t=1254776312[/imglink]

    [imglink]http://i44.tinypic.com/rgz2c2.png[/imglink]

    Heracles again, this time a more mixed looking less Greek looking version again:

    [imglink]http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Pottery/FunPot.jpg[/imglink]

    You guys should seriously see the big brown Hercules choking the hell out of Busirus pic in full color, I guess whoever's it was didn't want it on the net for some reason.
    Last edited by EclectYummination; 2011-08-17 at 20:45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EclectYummination View Post
    Ancient Egyptians according to foreign accounts (ancient to middle ages)

    the Egyptian look in comparison with other ethnicities, peoples, nations...



    - Aristotle

    On skin complexion whites are listed from lightest to darkest and blacks from darkest to lightest (Egyptians come out "medium hue" of humankind):



    - Manilius

    Side note: These Mauretanians were the Mauri whom Jerome and other Romans classified as Ethiopians and whom Platus says were also known as "Niger" or "Nigri". These were not the "Libyans" whom I'm aware were described as Leuco-Ethiopians ("white" Ethiopians) -- I will speak about the even more variably described NorthWest Africans at the bottom of this post (including blonde to mixed to black described at times).


    [/i]

    - Herodotus


    [/i]

    - Herodotus 4.108 trans. Rawlinson.



    - Xenophanes of Colophon: Fragments, Xenophanes, J. H. Lesher

    The Indian comparison quotes



    - Arrian, Indica 6.9



    - Strabo, Geography 15.1.13

    "Northern India" would then have referred to what is now Pakistan and perhaps the Colchians Herodotus described above (through the ages the latter have been described as yellow, and although black Georgians still exist most say they are immigrant descendents of Sudanese troops or something like that.

    Pakistanis:

    [imglink]http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01295/tamil_1295593c.jpg[/imglink]

    [imglink]http://www.voicetamil.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/vavuniya_camp_tamil_student_2.jpg[/imglink]

    (O.T. but interestingly - especially since early on Euros more inland than Greco-Romans confused "India" which refers to Indo-Arabian "Eastern Ethiopia" with Nile Valley-Saharan "Ethiopia" and used the two words interchangeably - there are dark skinned Somali and Jet black Sudanese with hair that at least *looks* very wavy btw.)



    - Aristotle



    ---------- Post added 2011-08-17 at 14:11 ----------



    On what the oldest "Afrocentrist",

    [imglink]http://wysinger.homestead.com/Diodorus_Siculus2.jpg[/imglink]

    Diodorus Siculus, a Greek, had to say on the matter:



    Later European impression

    Byzantine depiction of Abraham and Sarah with Egyptians, including the pharaoh, all depicted the same colour:

    [imglink]http://www.biblepicturegallery.com/samples/pa/stories/bk_moses/abraham/Abraham%20and%20Sarah%20before%20Pharaoh%20.gif[/imglink]

    full view of both

    In Dante's inferno in rhyme something black as all get-up is described as "black as those who live on the Nile".

    A side note On "Libyans", and how they were invaded by Phoenicians et. al. as well as by "Ethiopians" at a point in time:




    - Pomponius




    - General History of Africa: Ancient civilizations of Africa By G. Mokhtar, Unesco. International Scientific Committee for the Drafting of a General History of Africa
    p. 427




    - Strabo, Geography 1.2.26




    - The golden trade of the Moors: West African kingdoms in the fourteenth century
    By E. W. Bovill, Robin Hallet
    pp. 21-22

    Then there's this Christian physician who described Egyptian-Sudanese region Beja women as "golden" complected (which many nubians are today) describes Berber women he encountered like this:



    - Martha A. Brozyna in Gender and Sexuality in the Middle Ages: A Medieval Source Documents Reader 2005
    your pictures for the pakistanis are very misleading, those are dravidians, most pakistanis as well as north indians look almost like persians and are much lighter. id bet those lighter skinned ones where the ones they made a comparison to with the ancient egyptians.

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    Roflcopter:

    [imglink]http://ursispaltenstein.ch/blog/images/uploads_img/egyptian_hieroglyphs.jpg[/imglink]

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    Classical (ancient) Greek Ethiopia and its Indians =/= modern India, but I admit I wasted no time in deliberating in what pictures to post. Perhaps you can track down the region, or better yet specific cultures that would've comprised ancient East AEthiopia, at least the part that was far East (India).

    ---------- Post added 2011-08-17 at 15:53 ----------

    No one has anymore quotes?

    I would include modern art ... but there's so much of it. Funny pics are of course allowed.

    Modern Egyptomania craze art:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by EclectYummination; 2011-08-17 at 20:54.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EclectYummination View Post
    Later European impression

    Byzantine depiction of Abraham and Sarah with Egyptians, including the pharaoh, all depicted the same colour:

    [imglink]http://www.biblepicturegallery.com/samples/pa/stories/bk_moses/abraham/Abraham%20and%20Sarah%20before%20Pharaoh%20.gif[/imglink]
    What are you implying? Egyptians are sand-Caucasoids.

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    That Jews were white!

    Jus kidding.

    Continuing with Memnon (of The Chronicles of Memnon:

    [imglink]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Altes_Museum-Memnon.jpg/90px-Altes_Museum-Memnon.jpg[/imglink]

    Was he Kemetian? I thought he was Ethiopian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EclectYummination View Post
    Classical (ancient) Greek Ethiopia and its Indians =/= modern India, but I admit I wasted no time in deliberating in what pictures to post. Perhaps you can track down the region, or better yet specific cultures that would've comprised ancient East AEthiopia, at least the part that was far East (India).
    since those quotes made it clear to seperate between south indians and north indians, it should be very obvious what type of indians those historians where refering to when comparing them to the egyptians.

    and indians have not changed in appearance since that time (they didnt change period)

    and regarding your images, would be cool if you could post some actuall links which has your descriptions next to them, because i find it hard to believe some of those pictures are of actual egyptians. many of them seem to be of nubians but labeled as egyptians for their afrocentric agenda. at most they would be lower egyptians after the new kingdom, when alot of nubians where incorporated into egytptian society.

    and heracles parents where egyptian? where did you hear that, they always said he was the son of zeus and some greek woman. not that a mythological figure would matter. and your first images of heracles certainly looks caucasoid, curly hair is not the same as kinky hair and brown skin is prevalent in many asiatic and mediterranean people as well.

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