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Thread: What do you guys consider to be Griffes?2882 days old

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    I don't like to use such terms personally to refer to people as I find them to be pretentious and debasing. However, my understanding was that a "griffe" was usually someone who was of predominately SSA ancestry with approximately ~25% European admixture. Most African Americans are just slightly above this threshold and would be considered part of the griffe spectrum, for example. Basically, the quintessential New World Black look is a griffe look or just above that in terms of SSA ancestry. As far as phenotypes go, they vary a great deal. Most New World Blacks look like modified SSAs with obscure or noticeable European features. Others of this type can look very distinct from SSAs depending on recombination and ancestral inputs.
    I agree. before this forum, i didn't know what the hell a Griffe was. Come to find out, I'm kinda Griffe-ish
    K=47 Results
    78.92% African
    • 59.05% West-African
    • 8.36% Central-African_HG
    • 3.32% East-African_HG
    • 2.22% Nilotic
    • 2.11% Omotic(?)
    • 1.78% Sahelian
    • 1.05% South-African_HG
    • 1.03% Kushitic(?)

    11.84% West Eurasian
    • 3.79% North-Sea_Germanic
    • 2.15% East-Euro
    • 1.39% Scando-Germanic
    • 1.26% Paleo-Balkan
    • 0.88% Central-Med
    • 0.54% NW-Indian(?)
    • 0.42% East-Iberian
    • 0.39% Baltic
    • 0.14% West-Med
    • 0.17% North-Iberian
    • 0.02% East-Med

    9.92% Native/Indigenous to Americas
    • 4.59% Meso-Amerind
    • 2.14% Amazonian
    • 2.01% Andean
    • 1.15% North-Amerind
    • 0.02% South-Indian(?)
    • 0.01% Tibetan(?)

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to pgbk87 For This Useful Post:

    jonboyclem (2011-09-27), Magneto (2011-09-28), Spark (2011-09-27)

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  4. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgbk87 View Post
    I agree. before this forum, i didn't know what the hell a Griffe was. Come to find out, I'm kinda Griffe-ish
    I would say a clear majority of New World Blacks are either on the griffe or pred. SSA triracial spectrum in some form or another. Phenotypically, you are more the latter to me rather than the former from what I have seen of you. Will Smith and Rihanna look very stereotypical of the former, for example.

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  6. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    I would say a clear majority of New World Blacks are either on the griffe or pred. SSA triracial spectrum in some form or another. Phenotypically, you are more the latter to me rather than the former from what I have seen of you. Will Smith and Rihanna look very stereotypical of the former, for example.
    Hey I was looking at where you plot on the global similarity chart. You're in between my gf and most of the Aframs, but I realized that you had no "pull" to the right. I'm guessing your Native is 1-2%. Did you get in contact McDonald?
    K=47 Results
    78.92% African
    • 59.05% West-African
    • 8.36% Central-African_HG
    • 3.32% East-African_HG
    • 2.22% Nilotic
    • 2.11% Omotic(?)
    • 1.78% Sahelian
    • 1.05% South-African_HG
    • 1.03% Kushitic(?)

    11.84% West Eurasian
    • 3.79% North-Sea_Germanic
    • 2.15% East-Euro
    • 1.39% Scando-Germanic
    • 1.26% Paleo-Balkan
    • 0.88% Central-Med
    • 0.54% NW-Indian(?)
    • 0.42% East-Iberian
    • 0.39% Baltic
    • 0.14% West-Med
    • 0.17% North-Iberian
    • 0.02% East-Med

    9.92% Native/Indigenous to Americas
    • 4.59% Meso-Amerind
    • 2.14% Amazonian
    • 2.01% Andean
    • 1.15% North-Amerind
    • 0.02% South-Indian(?)
    • 0.01% Tibetan(?)

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    Spark (2011-09-27)

  8. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alej View Post
    The people I know usually consider this type to Griffes:















    Only 3 and 6 would make the griffe cut in my book, and not by a large margin.

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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alej View Post
    The people I know usually consider this type to Griffes...
    Lol, Lloyd and this chick look triracial (the Brazilian lady looks pred euro with notable native and sub-saharan admix); Giancarlo Esposito (who reminds me of central/southern Moroccans btw), Ella Thomas, and Marsha Thomason are all mulattos (the creole lady at the top looks to be one too); the northeast African kid (who I assume is Egyptian/horner/northern Sudanese) appears to make the most sense, but he looks more like a marabou imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by pgbk87 View Post
    Shyne & Big Sean are good examples of Griffes. These Belizean Kriol girls are closer to Griffe than Mulatta
    I disagree with jbc and Big Sean, jbc looks to be anywhere from 85-90% sub-Saharan and Big Sean looks 80-85%.

    A good benchmark for a griffe (imo) is Jean-Claude Duvalier (off-mulatto mother―likely ~60% black―and a pred black father), Shyne is reminiscent of some Griffes as well (and I agree with you looking like one too).

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  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asce View Post
    I disagree with jbc and Big Sean, jbc looks to be anywhere from 85-90% sub-Saharan and Big Sean looks 80-85%.

    A good benchmark for a griffe (imo) is Jean-Claude Duvalier (off-mulatto mother―likely ~60% black―and a pred black father), Shyne is reminiscent of some Griffes as well (and I agree with you looking like one too).
    I agree with everything you posted, except Big Sean. Maybe it's just me
    K=47 Results
    78.92% African
    • 59.05% West-African
    • 8.36% Central-African_HG
    • 3.32% East-African_HG
    • 2.22% Nilotic
    • 2.11% Omotic(?)
    • 1.78% Sahelian
    • 1.05% South-African_HG
    • 1.03% Kushitic(?)

    11.84% West Eurasian
    • 3.79% North-Sea_Germanic
    • 2.15% East-Euro
    • 1.39% Scando-Germanic
    • 1.26% Paleo-Balkan
    • 0.88% Central-Med
    • 0.54% NW-Indian(?)
    • 0.42% East-Iberian
    • 0.39% Baltic
    • 0.14% West-Med
    • 0.17% North-Iberian
    • 0.02% East-Med

    9.92% Native/Indigenous to Americas
    • 4.59% Meso-Amerind
    • 2.14% Amazonian
    • 2.01% Andean
    • 1.15% North-Amerind
    • 0.02% South-Indian(?)
    • 0.01% Tibetan(?)

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgbk87 View Post
    I agree with everything you posted, except Big Sean. Maybe it's just me
    I think Rihanna could be another example of the griffe pheno.

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Andullero View Post
    I think Rihanna could be another example of the griffe pheno.
    Yeah that's what Spark was saying. Will Smith too
    K=47 Results
    78.92% African
    • 59.05% West-African
    • 8.36% Central-African_HG
    • 3.32% East-African_HG
    • 2.22% Nilotic
    • 2.11% Omotic(?)
    • 1.78% Sahelian
    • 1.05% South-African_HG
    • 1.03% Kushitic(?)

    11.84% West Eurasian
    • 3.79% North-Sea_Germanic
    • 2.15% East-Euro
    • 1.39% Scando-Germanic
    • 1.26% Paleo-Balkan
    • 0.88% Central-Med
    • 0.54% NW-Indian(?)
    • 0.42% East-Iberian
    • 0.39% Baltic
    • 0.14% West-Med
    • 0.17% North-Iberian
    • 0.02% East-Med

    9.92% Native/Indigenous to Americas
    • 4.59% Meso-Amerind
    • 2.14% Amazonian
    • 2.01% Andean
    • 1.15% North-Amerind
    • 0.02% South-Indian(?)
    • 0.01% Tibetan(?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by pgbk87 View Post
    Hey I was looking at where you plot on the global similarity chart. You're in between my gf and most of the Aframs, but I realized that you had no "pull" to the right. I'm guessing your Native is 1-2%. Did you get in contact McDonald?
    Yes, I did. In fact, a number of persistent lingering questions have kept me from posting my full results here. For one, Amerind is showing up as various types of Asian in McDonald's ancestry painting. When asked, McDonald could not explain it.

    Running my data on other tools did uncover various scattered pre-Amerind Asian strains at the range you suggest (2-3%), but McDonald was not successful at capturing this. I share a lot of genetic similarities with other triracial spectrum types on 23andme (even those with just a bit of Amerind) using the comparison tools, and another member agreed that the admixture is there after reviewing my data. But McDonald said a lot of mysteries remain in the North American case. I let jonboyclem know this on the 23andme forums.


    The Maya are not exactly close to the Iroquoian peoples with whom I have an affinity so it may be that McDonald needs more North American samples to capture Amerind variation in my homeland -- explaining my pull to "Asian" rather than "American." Also, for my European component he has Hungarian as a strong match -- I think my Amerind is being lumped in with my Euro since I have no known E. Euro roots -- so the Euro output is further east than it ought to be. However, finding pure samples in the Eastern Woodlands is going to be an issue from what he told me since most everyone is mixed and even the purest eastern samples usually top out at "30% Maya" on his tests. My guess is with proper sampling and Amerind variation captured, they would top out a bit higher, maybe around 35%.
    Last edited by Spark; 2011-09-27 at 22:21.

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  19. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgbk87 View Post
    Yeah that's what Spark was saying. Will Smith too
    Maroon's kid will be one when he grows up, I think.

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