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Thread: Russian elections and protest against election fraud2778 days old

  1. #11
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    Racialicious Malcolm Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinderella View Post
    Because he led the failure of the communist system (something impossible to avoid, as communist economy was fucked up since 1973 and going worst and worst) and did him best.

    Maybe he thought that Russia will become a democratical country, but he maybe forgot the lack of experience of this country in democratical ideas. It's the same problem than Spain or Turkey...
    Isn't Spain a democracy now? Hasn't it been so for 30-40 years? That's a lot of democratic experience. Not to mention history prior to Franco, where democracy existed as well.

    All countries have no experience with democracy when they start becoming democracies. But with time they become more stable. Indonesia had no experience with democracy in 1997, but it seems to be working now, for example.

    And about Gorbachev, I admire him more than Yeltsin. My ranking of last Russian/Soviet leaders:

    Putin > Gorbachev > Ieltsin
    But the peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error.

    - John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

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  3. #12
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    Molecular Biologist Acquisitorz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinderella View Post
    THAT'S MY POINT! That's what I was saying. He followed the reality... But there were people from the Party who did not accept the failure of the economical system (like Honecker in East Germany).
    So what that Honecker did not want to lose power ? What does this have to do with Gorbachev ? Soviet Union was bankrupt, people were standing in lines all over the place, the system was broken beyond repair. I dont see reasons to "admire" Gorby tbh, when he took over he had to introdue glasnost and perestroyka, not because he saw Soviet Union as an evil empire, but because it was bankrupt.

    Gorbachev will pass away soon, I'm sure that a lot of people will gather near his grave and speak about how unique he was and blah blah, but if you take a fresh look at the reality, then you are unlikely to find anything extraordinary.

    I have watched many of his recent interviews on youtube, and according to my personal opinion, the guy is a fake who is simply saying populistic garbage, intended to make viewers like him.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-09 at 15:10 ----------

    And about Gorbachev, I admire him more than Yeltsin. My ranking of last Russian/Soviet leaders:

    Putin > Gorbachev > Ieltsin
    I dont agree about this, I dont think you can compare Putin/Yeltsin to Gorbachev, they ruled over completely different countries.

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm Z View Post
    Isn't Spain a democracy now?
    As I said, a very weak democracy as Turkey... with no separation of powers. And you can easily find how similars have been Spain and Russia along the history: both two empires depeloped in militar issues but underdeveloped in scientist and democratical issues (compare how Spain and Russia were at beggining of XXth century with the United Kingdom, France or Holand). Spain found national-catolicism (that's the way of thinking of militar spaniards) and Russia found communism.

    I'm still feeling sorry for the nations which suffered the Russian Empire like Ukraine or Baltic Countries...

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    The russians are experts in totalitarian regimes ... and also in try to shake off oppression, as the 140.000 siberian anarchists who fought in civil war against the communists and the tsarist at a time, the Kronstadt sailors who rebelled against bolshevik state or the amount of individualistic and collectivist anarchist thinkers who has given by Russia such as Borovoi , Bakunin, Kropotkin and Tolstoy.

    A nation of extremes, capable of the best and worst.

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    a funny and sad thing about Russia is that until very recently, their society resembled the animal kingdom so much that every leader who got removed from the office was murdered. The animals frequently also kill the ex leader of the tribe who has grown old and weak.
    The first russian leader who was forcefully removed from the office and whos life was spared appears to be Nikita Khruschev, however he lost many privileges and was basically confined to his appartment/datcha.
    Gorbachev was the first leader to be removed who was spared from any persecution and its funny to see that there is a reason (yes a sick one) why animals and less developed countries tend to kill the removed leader, to prevent him from barking like Gorbachev is doing today. Not that I support killing removed leaders, no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acquisitorz View Post
    I'm sorry to break your bubble but he did not "destroy" Soviet Union, he simply followed the reality, he simply admitted that the country was bankrupt due to falling oil prices. I'm sorry but I dont see reasons to "admire" him for this.
    A Russian that is honest is unusual and admirable.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-10 at 08:19 ----------

    Let's dicuss the topic:

    What do you think about the Russian elections, fair / not fair? How sick is the sick man of Europe, based on what the current regime does?
    Euroaboriginal - tested and classified.

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