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Thread: Do West Africans Have Any Connections to Ancient Egypt?2658 days old

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibarodepr View Post
    West Africans have no connection to egypt, no new world black can claim queen nefertiti heritage.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-14 at 23:09 ----------

    Mathilda.
    Why do you think that is that a better answer than what Bandar Qasim wrote?

    Let me put something in perspective.

    Lets take a look at Europe. Like many parts of Sub Saharan Africa the dominant male lineage NOW in most of Western Europe is the most sucessful LATE comer : R1b, Its seems that I, E, G and maybe J predate R into Western Europe.
    The R1b migration into Western Europe is now seen to come somewhere..maybe the Middle East.......along with Mtdna H that replaced most of the Euro Natives.

    This means there is a deep connection between Europe and and places in its periphery : Anatolia, Near/Middle East etc.

    Now after European R1b is seen as "European" there are other lineages that are more typically "Middle Eastern" that end up in Europe too the J people.....and there are even derivatives of East African lineages to boot,E1b1b people. Some of these lineages spread from the Near/Middle East only a few thousand years ago. Some like E-m81 come directly from North Africa. All these folks have mixed with "Europeans".

    Now lets add to this that some groups in Europe are thought to be DIRECT migrants from the Near/Middle East in historical times....most recognizable groups is Jews, Gypsies, and other people they call "Wogs".

    Since prehistory and in history every step of the way you have populations moving from the Near/Middle East into Europe. Even some of the language as well as most of the religion comes from areas more to the East. So it makes no sense to ask if "Europeans have a connection to Mid eastern cultures".


    Now of you re-read Bandar Qasim's post and then mine I am sure you will come up with an answer that makes more sense.
    The OP is asking the WRONG question. Through phylogeny nearly ALL Africans have "a connection" to "Insert African group here".
    Last edited by beyoku; 2012-03-15 at 12:41.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    Why do you think that is that a better answer than what Bandar Qasim wrote?

    Let me put something in perspective.

    Lets take a look at Europe. Like many parts of Sub Saharan Africa the dominant male lineage NOW in most of Western Europe is the most sucessful LATE comer : R1b, Its seems that I, E, G and maybe J predate R into Western Europe.
    The R1b migration into Western Europe is now seen to come somewhere..maybe the Middle East.......along with Mtdna H that replaced most of the Euro Natives.

    This means there is a deep connection between Europe and and places in its periphery : Anatolia, Near/Middle East etc.

    Now after European R1b is seen as "European" there are other lineages that are more typically "Middle Eastern" that end up in Europe too the J people.....and there are even derivatives of East African lineages to boot,E1b1b people. Some of these lineages spread from the Near/Middle East only a few thousand years ago. Some like E-m81 come directly from North Africa. All these folks have mixed with "Europeans".

    Now lets add to this that some groups in Europe are thought to be DIRECT migrants from the Near/Middle East in historical times....most recognizable groups is Jews, Gypsies, and other people they call "Wogs".

    Since prehistory and in history every step of the way you have populations moving from the Near/Middle East into Europe. Even some of the language as well as most of the religion comes from areas more to the East. So it makes no sense to ask if "Europeans have a connection to Mid eastern cultures".


    Now of you re-read Bandar Qasim's post and then mine I am sure you will come up with an answer that makes more sense.
    The OP is asking the WRONG question. Through phylogeny nearly ALL Africans have "a connection" to "Insert African group here".
    Well, Ibeleive thatt here are some tribes that have a connection with Egyptians, but not West Africans as a whole(and none of these tribes have descendants sent to the Americas)
    On the case of Euros, then some do, mostly Southern Europeans.

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    ^ what tribes? Name them please...the thing is the first "West Africans" were probably similar to many of these tribes that you are going to name. Those "Tribes" stayed where they were and are now similar to some Sudanese, Egyptians more or less "turned into" Egyptians while those traveling west turned into "West Africans"

    See :



    or



    "Afrocentrists" did not make these images.
    All these folks are related at an ancient level.

    Most "West Africans" have no immediate connection to Ethiopia but the male lineage of MOST West Africans comes from Ethiopia.
    Last edited by beyoku; 2012-03-15 at 15:25.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    ^ what tribes? Name them please...the thing is the first "West Africans" were probably similar to many of these tribes that you are going to name. Those "Tribes" stayed where they were and are now similar to some Sudanese, Egyptians more or less "turned into" Egyptians while those traveling west turned into "West Africans"

    See :



    or



    "Afrocentrists" did not make these images.
    I think Bandar Quasim named them on his post.
    That genetic ancestry is distant, and their culture is different, east Africans have more right to claim them than West Africans.

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    Sigh, the discussion is not about "Claiming" stuff. The idea is about recent or ancient connection that actually exist. See the groups Bandar mentioned in the tishkoff study and see how similar or unsimilar they are to "West Africans"

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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    Sigh, the discussion is not about "Claiming" stuff. The idea is about recent or ancient connection that actually exist. See the groups Bandar mentioned in the tishkoff study and see how similar or unsimilar they are to "West Africans"
    The same groups I told you were the only ones related to Egyptians, but only those groups.

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    Sigh, West Africans come FROM those groups. Those groups are "Proto-West African"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandar Qasim View Post
    East Africans (Nubians) were the enemies of Ancient Egypt though. They despised each other.

    Not really Bandar Qasim, it depends on the Nubian group. This was discussed on the Sudanese forums, and now scholars have finally caught up. Here is what i am talking about.




    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/ar...pagewanted=all

    This narrative is, of course, a biased one. To Egypt, Nubia, at its most powerful, was “vile Kush.” When Nubians appear in Egyptian murals and statues, it’s often as primitives or prisoners.

    excerpt from New York Times. please read and educate your self

    More recently, our own Western prejudices — namely the idea that geographic Egypt was not a part of “black” Africa — have contributed to the dearth of knowledge about Nubia. The early-20th-century archaeologist George Reisner, for instance, identified large burial mounds at the site of Kerma as the remains of high Egyptian officials instead of those of Nubian kings. (Several of Reisner’s finds are in the show, reattributed to the Nubians.)

    In one of his catalog essays the archaeologist Geoff Emberling, who conceived the show along with Jennifer Chi of the institute, examines some of these historical errors.

    “We now recognize that populations of Nubia and Egypt form a continuum rather than clearly distinct groups,” Mr. Emberling writes, “and that it is impossible to draw a line between Egypt and Nubia that would indicate where ‘black’ begins.



    Behold the prophecy of Neferti the ascension of Amenemhet I who was of Ta seti origin,



    Amenemhet I of the 12th dynasty

    Then a king will come from the South,
    Ameny, the justified, my name,
    Son of a woman of Ta-Seti, child of Upper Egypt,
    He will take the white crown,
    he willjoin the Two Mighty Ones (the two crowns)

    http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/amenemhet1.htm
    website above/main stream website not so called afrocentric




    wikipedia which was written by Yurco a French Egyptologist, his book is title black pharaoh, I believe.

    Various pharaohs of Nubian origin are held by some Egyptologists to have played an important part towards the area in different eras of Egyptian history, particularly the 12th Dynasty. These rulers handled matters in typical Egyptian fashion, reflecting the close cultural influences between the two regions.
    ...the XIIth Dynasty (1991–1786 B.C.E.) originated from the Aswan region. As expected, strong Nubian features and dark coloring are seen in their sculpture and relief work. This dynasty ranks as among the greatest, whose fame far outlived its actual tenure on the throne. Especially interesting, it was a member of this dynasty that decreed that no Nehsy (riverine Nubian of the principality of Kush), except such as came for trade or diplomatic reasons, should pass by the Egyptian fortress and cops at the southern end of the Second Nile Cataract. Why would this royal family of Nubian ancestry ban other Nubians from coming into Egyptian territory? Because the Egyptian rulers of Nubian ancestry had become Egyptians culturally; as pharaohs, they exhibited typical Egyptian attitudes and adopted typical Egyptian policies. (Yurco 1989) [20]
    In the New Kingdom, Nubians and Egyptians were often so closely related that some scholars consider them virtually indistinguishable, as the two cultures melded and mixed together
    .


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nubia

    Basically the people in southern egypt and northern sudan is the key to the puzzle, they obviously look awe fully similar to the wall painting of the New kingdom period, and other dynasties, and even today aspects of the pharoanic culture lives on among the people without realizing its source,(from music, clothing, and even pharaonic circumcison) and many of the pharaonic monuments is still standing in some shape and form in Northern Sudan today, and i am happy the Northern Sudanese are beginning to come to terms with their heritage.











    My belief the only people that can lay claims to ancient nile valley civilization is the people of Northern Sudan and Egypt Today, everyone from my humble opinion is negligible until proven other wise





    late sudanese nubian singer Muhammed wardi.
    Last edited by Mister G; 2012-03-15 at 16:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    Sigh, West Africans come FROM those groups. Those groups are "Proto-West African"
    Quote Originally Posted by Bandar Qasim View Post
    It depends on the ethnicity, I don't think all do. I would say the Kanuri, Baggara, and Kanembu found in parts of northeastern Nigeria probably have relatively recent Eastern/North Sudanese links and therefore distantly related to the Ancient Egyptians.
    From these groups?

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    YES, more so Kanuri and Kanembu as opposed to Baggara. THe Baggara may be the most recent group. But the ancestors of West Africans left a dying Sahara as well.

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