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Thread: Do West Africans Have Any Connections to Ancient Egypt?2683 days old

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    Default Do West Africans Have Any Connections to Ancient Egypt?

    Afrocentrists have always wore the Ancient Egypt sleeve with pride although they are descendents of West Africans. This leads me to ask if there are any possibilities of West Africans having any origins associated with the great civilization of Egypt.
    Last edited by inquisitive; 2012-03-14 at 13:55.

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    quote from weblink:
    Hanno, a native of Carthage, a main Phoenician trading port, explored the western coast of Africa around 500 B.C. His coastal route took him from the Straits of Gibraltar (the Pillars of Hercules) around the western coast of Africa to modern Sierra Leone, and, when supplies ran low, returned to Carthage the way he came. Hanno wrote an account of his travels that survives in its Greek translation. In the account, Hanno mentions that the Phoenician travelers established colonies along the African coast.

    http://marinersmuseum.org/education/...ld-phoenicians

    I think Ancient Egypt's African's were mostly from Sudan and Ethiopia and Nubia and the such.
    I doubt West Africans were in Egypt until after the Arab traders showed up with camels.
    West African's could have distant Phoenician, or Greek, or Roman ancestry, because they sailed around to West Africa.
    Last edited by ~Elizabeth~; 2012-03-14 at 13:33.

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    I think a good number of Afrocentric claims are exaggerated truths and lies. That being said there are some West African tribes that have claimed orgin in the East which is no suprise to me because humanity began in East Africa. Oral Tradition seems to be the largest evidence for the claims of certain tribes but historians dont give much weight to it.

    A few tribes that I know of that claim origin from Egypt/Nubia:

    The Dogon- are famous for their astronomical knowledge taught through oral tradition, dating back thousands of years, referencing the star system, Sirius is the dog star. It is linked with the Egyptian goddess Isis.
    http://archive.worldhistoria.com/the...ost426862.html

    The Yoruba- of Nigeria are believed by many modern historians to be descended from a people who were living on the banks of the Nile 2,000 years ago, and who were at the time in close contact with the Egyptians and the Jews.
    http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bi...ames/read/2139

    Fulani- Fulani claim origin from East Africa and some even claim from the Nile Valley specifically
    http://www.jamtan.com/jamtan/fulani....&linksPage=212

    In the end the Afrocentric claim is not completely ridiculous becuase it at least has some foundation. We might never really know
    Last edited by Pulaar; 2012-03-14 at 13:49.

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    Not only do Afrocentrists exaggerate but also their claims get exaggerated.

    As far as the Yoruba claim when I first heard it it seemed off and far fetched in my opinion, but more recently a West African said they claim to have gotten their priesthoods or some other leadership from there, not necessarily that they all descend from there.

    As far as the Dogon and Fulani go, those are some of the Northern most of West Africans and of sub-Saharans, a vast region of Africa. Speaking of sub-Saharan Africa, in the past, at one point early on in Pharaohnic Kemetian (Ancient Egyptian) civilization, the Sahara used to end not even fully South of Egypt, meaning the desert ended only half as far down. On the Western end before Pharaohnic times there is evidence in the form of paintings and archaeological evidence that people far South of the desert once roamed quite far North of where they now roam in modern times. There is even astrological stuff they relate to the Dogon, and cultural practices depicted that some Anthropologists relate to the Fulani. During these times the Sahara desert was not there, there was even a River going North up through Libya that isn't there any more, and where there is Sahara, it was more Wetlands environment. Since before Pharaohnic times people didn't farm, they hunted and gathered and followed flora and fauna quite far. Some thing people could easily have roamed from as far as say what is now the Western Egyptian-Sudanese desert region, all the way to this Algerian site called T'assili N'ajer or something (a site famous do to its paintings some of which are definitely astrological reminiscent). There are even paintings of a Giraffe in Libya or nearby in Western Egypt (can't remember which, but for sure, one of the two). So disregarding a direct connection in the form of recent travels from Egypt, even still there could have at least been somewhat of an ancient connection. There exists genetic evidence for this ....

    Also what's funny is the Med & Eurocentrism contamination that often automatically comes with finds like this find from Nigeria:

    The Eredo Ramparts: more Earth than the Pyramids

    Other Nigerian finds:

    [imglink]http://apollo5.bournemouth.ac.uk/africanlegacy/images/kanowalls2.jpg[/imglink]

    [imglink]http://apollo5.bournemouth.ac.uk/africanlegacy/images/kanowalls.jpg[/imglink]

    [imglink]http://cache.virtualtourist.com/4/4662688-typical_walls_of_the_royal_musum_of_d_abomey_Benin .jpg[/imglink]

    [imglink]http://wysinger.homestead.com/beninpicture_op_800x650.jpg[/imglink]

    Pic of Sungbo's Rampart:

    [imglink]http://csweb.bournemouth.ac.uk/africanlegacy/images/sungbo_eredo.jpg[/imglink]

    [imglink]http://www.newciv.org/pic/nl/artpic/245/000245-000008.jpg[/imglink]

    [imglink]http://apollo5.bournemouth.ac.uk/africanlegacy/images/moat.jpg[/imglink]

    It gets linked to the Queen of Sheba. A thousand years or so after her death. And in Nigeria. I'm aware that she was in Ethiopia, and Arabia, but it was an a thousand year difference.

    Not only that, but with how involved Arabs are randomly said to have been in West Africa (more Northern, like Mali, Wagadou, Kanem-Bornu, Burkina Faso, Songhai) in general as soon as anyone knows it's on the map (was anything in the past, or had a history), and often falsely / exaggeratedly so, it's funny that there's no connection to Egypt. You even get Cameroon's Hg R DNA being from ancient Central Asians (even though it's up in the air as to where they get it and most likely it's so ancient it's indigenous), and yet, Egypt and West Africa, just too far of a distance for them Africans to travel (from one direction or the other). Actually two trading networks that link to Egypt and West Africa have been found, but with the evidence so far that I know if, it could be like that MesoAmerican story of them being connected to trade routes that linked to North East North American tribes, even though it'd be indirect (as far as I know nothing from Kemetian times comes from Nigeria).
    Last edited by EclectYummination; 2012-03-14 at 15:18.
    Curious rule here: There is an exception to every rule.

    The above rule, if true, would mean it was true for each rule (as by it's own words it specifies "every rule"), thus becoming the exception to itself, thus further solidifying its own truth / validity / veracity.

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    Depends on how far you want to go back. There are a few issues.

    "I think Ancient Egypt's African's were mostly from Sudan and Ethiopia and Nubia and the such. " - ~Elizabeth~
    This is true but this is the case for the MAJORITY of West Africans if you go back to the point of humans migrating into an "Empty" West Africa. You should add "Saharans" to that and we will get to them later.

    Also some of these West African and Central African people have not only "Recent" (in Evolutionary terms) Admixture from Sudan but some groups particularly in Chad, Niger and around the White Nile in Central Africa are thought to be migrations of actual static GROUPS of people from the Upper Nile Valley.

    Back to Saharans, if Saharans and Sahelians are populations push south by an Arid Sahara following what we see as today as "Sub Saharan" Fauna that was once in the Sahara (Crocs, Giraffes, see rock art) some of these people are the ancestors of Modern West Africans......and some of these ancestors are KNOWN to have moved into the Nile Valley to. Take note: This is a main idea in the peopling of Egypt.....they they came from a dying Sahara. No one points out that many Sudanese and other folks in Western Sub Saharan Africa also have these same ancestors.

    Another thing that is interesting is the ideas that Africans have among themselves about their (and others) ethnogenesis. Many times when I hear/read their story It seems like a description of their Bio Genesis. I would be like Europeans of 4050 AD reading books from 2012 where they say "We come from Africa"...........of course this is not something they "remember" its based on research. When Egyptians talk about coming from the "mountains of the moon" and Punt. I think they were smart enough to figure out their human origins of long ago somewhere in the great lakes region of East Africa.

    I have seen old historians talk about how the Beja in the horn tell them they come from "Egypt"........this is way before the discovery of V32 and V22. I have spoken lately a Mandinkan woman who told me the Hausa come from further East and folks around lake Chad come from "Egypt and Ethiopia". She knows nothing of Genetics, but I know what this means as far as deep ancestry and linguistics. The Zulu saying they come from more Northern Areas cannot be discounted for the mere face most of their ancestry comes from West Africa which is more norther. The same can be said for Nilotic groups in the Great lakes that have a more northern Source.

    Even my wife who is Horner, when we first went to the MET was quick you point out to a group of strangers that the "Egyptians come from us and Nubians" SHe didnt need to know about the Major paternal contribution to from the Horn to NE Africa.

    All in All, when Africans have ideas about where they come from they seem to know what they are talking about...even if they are describing some very ancient event.
    Last edited by beyoku; 2012-03-14 at 15:44.

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    Were the Ancient Egyptians black?

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    Certainly not .

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    They are very distantly related(by Y-DNA and MTDNA maybe) but nothing more than it.

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    NO......
    Ancient Egyptians MUST have looked something like modern North Sudanese/Upper (South) Egyptians. Look how dark they are compared to Berbers:


    So something like this:


    This is why there will be never ending debate. These people are basally Sub-Saharan EAST African (Nilo-Cushitic/Chadic-Saharan), but obviously part North African and part West Eurasian

    For those who want to whiten or blacken them, too bad....
    Last edited by pgbk87; 2012-03-14 at 20:53.
    K=47 Results
    78.92% African
    • 59.05% West-African
    • 8.36% Central-African_HG
    • 3.32% East-African_HG
    • 2.22% Nilotic
    • 2.11% Omotic(?)
    • 1.78% Sahelian
    • 1.05% South-African_HG
    • 1.03% Kushitic(?)

    11.84% West Eurasian
    • 3.79% North-Sea_Germanic
    • 2.15% East-Euro
    • 1.39% Scando-Germanic
    • 1.26% Paleo-Balkan
    • 0.88% Central-Med
    • 0.54% NW-Indian(?)
    • 0.42% East-Iberian
    • 0.39% Baltic
    • 0.14% West-Med
    • 0.17% North-Iberian
    • 0.02% East-Med

    9.92% Native/Indigenous to Americas
    • 4.59% Meso-Amerind
    • 2.14% Amazonian
    • 2.01% Andean
    • 1.15% North-Amerind
    • 0.02% South-Indian(?)
    • 0.01% Tibetan(?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by pgbk87 View Post
    NO......
    Ancient Egyptians MUST have looked something like modern North Sudanese/Upper (South) Egyptians. Look how dark they are compared to Berbers:


    So something like this:


    This is why there will be never ending debate. These people are basally Sub-Saharan EAST African (Nilo-Cushitic/Chadic-Saharan), but obviously part North African and part West Eurasian

    For those who want to whiten or blacken them, too bad....
    So,they were probably Slick Willy/Wadaad-oid?

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