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Thread: I2a1b1 is from the Carpathians - a Slavic haplogroup?2052 days old

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    Default I2a1b1 is from the Carpathians - a Slavic haplogroup?

    Former I2a2a in the Y2010 tree. I2a1b1 (L69.2(=T)/S163.2) is typical of the South Slavic populations of south-eastern Europe, being highest in Bosnia-Herzegovina (>50%). Haplogroup I2a1b1 is also commonly found in north-eastern Italians. There is also a high concentration of I2a2a in north- east Romania, Moldova and western Ukraine. In 2010 has Ken Nordtvedt argued that I2a1b1 is too young not to have been a result of a sudden expansion. According to him I2a1b1 arose not earlier than 2500 years ago in Eastern Europe. He has presumed this to be a consequence from the Slavic invasion of the Balkans, from the area north-east of the Carpathians since 500 CE. In 2011 Nordtvedt has confirmed I2a1b1 is not older than 2,800 years. In his last comments about Haplogroup I tree and the conjectured spread map, he locates the start of the I2a1b1 lineage around the middle course of the Vistula.

    Ken Nordtvendt (from Wikipedia)

    source: http://praskozorje.weebly.com/istina-o-i2a1b1.html

    --------
    Could this be true?
    Is I2a1b1 a truly Slavic haplogroup from the Carpathians?

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    I2a-Dinaric (both N and S) is definitely one of the two major current Slavic haplogroups (the other one being R1a (M-458). It cannot be shown however that it was originally Slavic, since there is no firm evidence that the Slavs existed as a distinct ethno-linguistic group prior to the early centuries of the common era. Nor is it at this point possible to conclusively demonstrate among which ancient ethno-linguistic group this haplogroup first arose ca. 1,000->500 BCE, nor even where. The best bet is that it is Central European (its closest relatives actually exist in the British Isles, but are thought to have migrated there from Central Europe).
    Last edited by dmytro; 2012-06-28 at 15:29. Reason: spelling

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    Wait, wait wait - we need to wait for aDNA and a real project focusing on our haplo.

    It's a cry for dig in other words
    and the IEEE Milestone for breaking the Enigma Code goes to... Polish Cipher Bureau 1932-39

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    I2a-Din is tricky, since its center of diversity and its highest frequency regions are both in Eastern Europe. But at the same time, it's the only I2a P37+ subclade with apparent Eastern European ties.

    I think dmytro is on the right track in saying that a likely explanation is that it split from I2a-Disles in Central Europe, and then both wandered separate directions before expanding in different places. But since it's an outlier with nearly 4000 years separating it from I2a-Disles, we can't say for sure at the moment.

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    Yeah, Nordvedt research has confirmed that it most likely comes from NE Romania,South Ukraine region.

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    Is that my y-haplo?

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    Quote Originally Posted by safinator View Post
    Yeah, Nordvedt research has confirmed that it most likely comes from NE Romania,South Ukraine region.
    How do you figure that when Disles is older than Dinaric yet Disles is pretty much only found in the British Isles? Or do you mean Dinaric specifically?

    If Disles moved to the British Isles from the east why is it not found in the east even though it is the older branch?
    Last edited by Gungnir; 2012-07-01 at 14:58.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    How do you figure that when Disles is older than Dinaric yet Disles is pretty much only found in the British Isles? Or do you mean Dinaric specifically?

    If Disles moved to the British Isles from the east why is it not found in the east even though it is the older branch?
    I'm talking of the subclade found in Balkans, not about the British one.

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    It has to be recent since the expansion of IE languages east from yamnaya did not bring any I(unless it was bottlenecked out, same with N).
    Last edited by newtoboard; 2012-07-02 at 00:28.

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    Quote Originally Posted by safinator View Post
    Yeah, Nordvedt research has confirmed that it most likely comes from NE Romania,South Ukraine region.
    Has Nordtvedt really shown that? I thought he just did the age calculation (using a very refined method, I might add).

    As for geographic diversity analyses, the best I've seen was actually from Vadim Verenich.

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