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Thread: Feminism, Democracy and total equality..2722 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balder View Post
    I like powerful women, especially in bed.


    I have never been discriminated by being a man.
    I like powerful women (in politics) AS LONG as they have the right views.

    Thus, I prefer a Christian Democratic or Sweden-Democratic lady over a pathetic male feminist (like Audun Lysbakken for instance)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audun_Lysbakken

    especially in bed.
    She spanks you? Or a strap-on?
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    Woman first priority are their children, then their jobs and professional career. Of course many women don't do this anymore, that's why there are so many fucked up children.

    And it sin't men responsibility to take care of the children, that's against nature, we are the hunters, you stay.

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    Women automatically have privilege & status in society. Demanding "Equality" is just another demand for more privilege. Women are protected (by men); men have much less privilege in society.

    If a world war erupts then who gets sent to the frontlines to die??? ~ men do. Women do not, because they are a privileged and integral aspect of almost every society, culture, group, religion, etc.

    By the way, this is not a complaint… I'm just stating the facts.
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    Quoting from another thread about feminism:

    Quote Originally Posted by ItaloPortuga View Post
    I think initially feminism was a positive thing, especially in the 60´s when women started using birth control and gained some sexual liberties. Birth control put men and women on more equal ground regarding casual and pre-marital sex, because before the pill, men were the only ones who could have sex without the possibility of becoming pregnant.
    Of course, this also lead to an increase in in sexual activity for both sexes, the consequences of which were not entirely positive (stds, aids, teenage pregnancy/single motherhood, etc). These things were obviously already happening and had been happening since the dawn of time, but they began to happen at a much faster rate (this can also be blamed on population growth, not just feminism)
    Society also became much more open and things which were once tabu started being exposed and discussed, thus giving the impression that people were doing things that they hadn´t been doing before... which isn´t exactly true.

    Because of these events, there seems to have been a backlash and feminism took a different turn. Sex, which had before been considered a positive and empowering force for women, became viewed as a means of oppression and control by men. Wome were discouraged from being feminine and sexy because this somehow diminished their intellectual capacity. They were now supposed to be equal with men on every level, which lead to a loss of their identity as women altogether. gender lines becamed blurred and women who had once been content to be wives and mothers had their roles de-valued and felt pressure to be "something more" as if being a woman was simply not enough. Thats´s where the whole thing basically went to shit.
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    Appian wrote they were a very warlike people. According to him, The Bracari women warriors fought defending their town "never turning, never never showing their backs, or uttering a cry", preferring death to captivity."
    -Wikipedia

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    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    That is a Marxist definition of Feminism. I do support the women rights and I also know there are several definitions of Feminism. I will focus on yours.

    Women live in the same conditions equality conditions in relevance to the men now than 500 hundred years ago. Keep in mind in mind there where a lot of social changes.
    Marie Antoinette had all the freedoms a woman can enjoy and also participation in politics, if you think the average women at that time have less rights, well you should know the average men didn't had rights at that time.
    For the Aristocracy, the only free social class, women were free and powerful.

    The difference between sexes is an illusion created by leftist politicians, for most part of the humanity the woman had a powerful position.
    Napoleon got part of his power because he married an important woman, Marie Louise of Austria.


    Now women don't live better or worse than 100 or 200 hundred years ago.
    You cant use exceptions versus the rule, it was only during the last century that women got rights to vote, own property ect...so to say that women had the same opportunities in the past is simply wrong.

    In the past women had little freedoms compared to now, the worst example is such as Classical Greece where women was not even considered humans, and were not expected to go outside the house unless totally necessary..

    Quote Originally Posted by Fedex View Post
    Woman first priority are their children, then their jobs and professional career. Of course many women don't do this anymore, that's why there are so many fucked up children.

    And it sin't men responsibility to take care of the children, that's against nature, we are the hunters, you stay.
    Its in our nature to do lots of things, such as kill and rape, should we not strive to be better then that?

    Men are not hunters anymore, for most of us we have been farmers for most of our recorded history, and in modern times we have been allot of various things, should that define us in the future too? you have a very low opinion on women it seems...

    did you know that women do more work in the world then men and that it has been like that since at least the dawn of agriculture, what does that tell you...?
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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    You cant use exceptions versus the rule, it was only during the last century that women got rights to vote, own property ect...so to say that women had the same opportunities in the past is simply wrong.
    In the past men (male) didn't have right to vote. So both Genders were equal.

    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    In the past women had little freedoms compared to now, the worst example is such as Classical Greece where women was not even considered humans, and were not expected to go outside the house unless totally necessary..
    During the same time and few miles away the Etruscan government decisions were made by men and women.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    In the past men (male) didn't have right to vote. So both Genders were equal.
    Lets take some examples:

    - Ancient Athens, all Athenian born men(men of two Athenian parents), not women..
    - Ancient Rome, Men given voting rights (depending on birth status, somewhat similar to Athens) not women.

    Middle ages:

    According to English Common Law, which developed from the 12th century onward, all property which a wife held at the time of a marriage became a possession of her husband. Eventually English courts forbade a husband's transferring property without the consent of his wife, but he still retained the right to manage it and to receive the money which it produced. French married women suffered from restrictions on their legal capacity which were removed only in 1965.[25] In the 16th century, the Reformation in Europe allowed more women to add their voices, including the English writers Jane Anger, Aemilia Lanyer, and the prophetess Anna Trapnell. English and American Quakers believed that men and women were equal. Many Quaker women were preachers.[26] Despite relatively greater freedom for Anglo-Saxon women, until the mid-19th century, writers largely assumed that a patriarchal order was a natural order that had always existed.[27] This perception was not seriously challenged until the 18th century when Jesuit missionaries found matrilineality in native North American peoples.[28]
    - Non-Sufferage rights from 1700's onwards:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...than_voting%29

    Beginning in the 1840s, state legislatures in the United States[45] and the British Parliament[46] began passing statutes that protected women's property from their husbands and their husbands' creditors. These laws were known as the Married Women's Property Acts.[47]
    Modern times (Voting):



    Its not that men had the right to vote that is the main issue, its that women have since the beginning of recorded history had less rights in the same time frame as men, thus being an unequal society in terms of legals matters, social matters is another thing all together..

    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    During the same time and few miles away the Etruscan government decisions were made by men and women.
    Do you have any sources for this? last i heard their government styles where mostly monarchy...
    I once tried thinking for an entire day, but I found it less valuable than one moment of study. I once tried standing up on my toes to see far out in the distance, but I found that I could see much farther by climbing to a high place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    Do you have any sources for this? last i heard their government styles where mostly monarchy...
    A lot of sources, I can put all here but it will be off topic. I have studied the Etruscan several times in my life and It is well know the women were very important, even the Greek Historians from that time used to describe the Etruscan as liberals.

    from wikiepedia:
    Sometimes males are identified with a matronymic, thus leaving some doubt as to whether early Etruscan society was patrilinear.
    Until then think about the matristic Etruri who worshipped the virgin goddess and think about the Matrilinear Picts, --and put some emery in your memery.

    From Wikipedia: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilt%...tica_e_sociale
    La donna nella società etrusca, diversamente dalla donna greca e in parte anche dalla donna romana, non si occupava solo delle attività domestiche.
    The woman of the etruscan society, at differnce of the Greek and Roman woman, was not only dedicated to the domestic activities.

    La rilevanza sociale della donna etrusca trova significative conferme nella documentazione archeologica e nelle storiografia latina e greca.
    The importance of the Etruscan women is corroborated i importance according to archaeological documents and the ancient Greek and Latin historiography

    La donna, inoltre, continuava a portare il proprio patronimico o il proprio nome anche da sposata
    She can keep her name even after marriage

    Si ritiene che la donna fosse anche titolare di attività economiche:
    It is supposed that the women was the held of the economical activities
    http://www.farthan.net/index.php?opt...mid=73&lang=en
    We know of women trained to the Etruscan discipline as attested by the story of Tanaquil and inscriptions bearing testimony to women exercising priestly functions (Sethra Murai, the priestess; Rampta Papni, priestess, consecrated...). Culture and power emerge from the wall-paintings in the Tomba della Scimmia depicting the funeral ludi held for a deceased woman. Women also held political offices as attested by a series of inscriptions (judge Ramtha was the wife of Larth Spitus, died aged 72, gave birth to three children).


    ---------- Post added 2012-05-04 at 17:19 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    Lets take some examples:

    - Ancient Athens, all Athenian born men(men of two Athenian parents), not women..
    - Ancient Rome, Men given voting rights (depending on birth status, somewhat similar to Athens) not women.

    Middle ages:
    1) Those are isolated examples, lets take this example:
    Etruscan society:
    -Women lead the house economy.
    -Women can keep her name
    -Women can be religious and political leader.

    2) In ancient Rome there were a lot of men with no rights, basically everybody that was not a Pater (house father) didnt have rights.
    Roman boys living with their fathers were no citizens until they didn't get their own house.


    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    - Non-Sufferage rights from 1700's onwards:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...than_voting%29
    Modern times (Voting):



    Its not that men had the right to vote that is the main issue, its that women have since the beginning of recorded history had less rights in the same time frame as men, thus being an unequal society in terms of legals matters, social matters is another thing all together..
    It is an achievement of the democracy, Feminist had nothing to do with that.

    If it were an achievement of the feminism, it is very wrong. Because women are entitled to vote for being human beings and not for being women.

    Universal suffrage is a reality.
    Female suffrage, is a myth because no one ask the gender at the moment of the inscription.
    Last edited by sean; 2012-05-04 at 18:21.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post

    Its in our nature to do lots of things, such as kill and rape, should we not strive to be better then that?

    Men are not hunters anymore, for most of us we have been farmers for most of our recorded history, and in modern times we have been allot of various things, should that define us in the future too? you have a very low opinion on women it seems...
    OK not hunters, but someone have to take care of the children, you can't let TV to educate them, and women have the genetic ability to raise children that men don't have.

    And it isn't in our nature to rape and kill, that's an ape instinct that was almost erased after language appeared, some individuals seems to have it though.

    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    did you know that women do more work in the world then men and that it has been like that since at least the dawn of agriculture, what does that tell you...?
    That's just feminist propaganda, men always do the hard job and bring the food to the table, wile women complain.

    I don't have a low opinion on women, but society has to accept that men and women are not the same and have different responsibility. Women have to rasie children to be good people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    A lot of sources, I can put all here but it will be off topic. I have studied the Etruscan several times in my life and It is well know the women were very important, even the Greek Historians from that time used to describe the Etruscan as liberals.
    I would love some english sources on this as i am not very familiar with Etruscan gender roles..sorry for the late reply by the way..

    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    1) Those are isolated examples, lets take this example:
    Etruscan society:
    -Women lead the house economy.
    -Women can keep her name
    -Women can be religious and political leader.

    2) In ancient Rome there were a lot of men with no rights, basically everybody that was not a Pater (house father) didnt have rights.
    Roman boys living with their fathers were no citizens until they didn't get their own house.
    The typical historical trend is clear, that women had less political and social rights then men..




    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    It is an achievement of the democracy, Feminist had nothing to do with that.

    If it were an achievement of the feminism, it is very wrong. Because women are entitled to vote for being human beings and not for being women.

    Universal suffrage is a reality.
    Female suffrage, is a myth because no one ask the gender at the moment of the inscription.

    There could be no democracy without women rights being elevated from what it was prior to universal suffrage, it has nothing to do with being a women, it has to do with being equal in rights to men..



    Quote Originally Posted by Fedex View Post
    OK not hunters, but someone have to take care of the children, you can't let TV to educate them, and women have the genetic ability to raise children that men don't have.
    Women can do that, but they should be able to choose freely if they want to have children at all, and in most countries we now have kindergarten and schools that take care of children...


    Quote Originally Posted by Fedex View Post
    And it isn't in our nature to rape and kill, that's an ape instinct that was almost erased after language appeared, some individuals seems to have it though.
    Humans are a violent species, to rape and kill is part of our history and it has been like that since the dawn of penis.. We have even developed biological to protect against rape, that is why women usually get "wet" when being raped, its to protect them from vaginal tear ect...


    Quote Originally Posted by Fedex View Post
    That's just feminist propaganda, men always do the hard job and bring the food to the table, wile women complain.

    I don't have a low opinion on women, but society has to accept that men and women are not the same and have different responsibility. Women have to rasie children to be good people.
    Its not propaganda, its a historical fact, prior to the industrial revolution it was common in all countries for whole families to work together in the fields, cottages ect, in most cases the women did the majority of the work, and taking care of the children...the working man image you have is a new creation of the industrial revolution, so is the nuclear family unit...

    here is a quick summary of the numbers:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZCTd...eature=related

    you do have a low opinion of women if you think they are good or bad depending on wether or not they have children ect..
    I once tried thinking for an entire day, but I found it less valuable than one moment of study. I once tried standing up on my toes to see far out in the distance, but I found that I could see much farther by climbing to a high place.
    Xunzi

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