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Thread: Origins of the British2585 days old

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    Default Origins of the British

    Surprisingly, there isn't a thread dedicated to the origins of the British and Irish people.

    As far as I can tell, there isn't exactly much consensus. Clearly there was some Anglo-Saxon settlement, but nobody can agree whether they were a small group or a part of a mass migration. We know that people were here before the Romans arrived, but as for when they got here, what languages they spoke and who they were, again there is not a single widely agreed upon answer.

    Please post all the interesting articles and studies you know of, as well as your opinions.

    Common ground. These are things we can all agree on.

    1. Humans lived in Britain at various times before the ice age. These people may be part of our genepool, but only after recolonising the land. Probably nobody lived here during the ice age.
    2. Scottish people are primarily made up of Picts, people who lived in Scotland during and immediately prior to the Roman conquest, as well as Scots, who came from Ireland.
    3. Welsh people are primarily made up of the pre-Roman Britons.
    4. R1b is the most common haplogroup in all of the British isles. We share a deep connection with Iberia, France and other areas of Europe. At some point they started speaking Celtic languages, which still remain in parts of the isles.
    5. There was definitely some sort of migration from Northern Germany and Denmark. They brought Old English and were from tribes called Angles, Saxons and Jutes.
    6. Viking settlement certainly occurred across the British isles, which was the last major addition to our genepool, the Norman invasion being genetically unimportant.

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    I think its outdated to look at Brits this way, because there have been so many immigrants in XIX and especially XX century. Pakistani/Indian origins, Carribeans, Jews and various Europeans etc. They somehow always dissapear in the shadow.
    Am I right or am I wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwestos View Post
    I think its outdated to look at Brits this way, because there have been so many immigrants in XIX and especially XX century. Pakistani/Indian origins, Carribeans, Jews and various Europeans etc. They somehow always dissapear in the shadow.
    Nice try but no fish this time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwestos View Post
    I think its outdated to look at Brits this way, because there have been so many immigrants in XIX and especially XX century. Pakistani/Indian origins, Carribeans, Jews and various Europeans etc. They somehow always dissapear in the shadow.

    The British are just as much an ethnic group as any other.

    Judeans lived in Poland for 800 years but they were never truly Polish.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_census_of_1921


    Nationality according to census

    All Polish Ruthenian[1] Jewish Belarusian German Lithuanian[2] Russian "local" Czech other unknown
    25.694.700 17.789.287 3.898.428 2.048.878 1.035.693 769.392 24.044 48.920 38.943 30.628 9.856 631
    100% 69,23% 15,17% 7,97% 4,03% 2,99% 0,09%
    0,19% 0,15% 0,12% 0,04% ~0,002%

    If I was born in Somalia I wouldn't be Somali, if you were born in Korea would you be Korean?

    http://geocurrents.info/cultural-geo...re-not-russian

    If a Serb is born in Croatia or Bosnia or Romania he is still a Serb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny View Post
    Nice try but no fish this time.
    good one!
    Am I right or am I wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwestos View Post
    good one!
    He is plankton, not a fish.

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    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...itishgene.html

    http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/ma...itishancestry/

    Most modern studies indicate that the English are of predominantly pre-saxon descent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justhere View Post
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...itishgene.html

    http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/ma...itishancestry/

    Most modern studies indicate that the English are of predominantly pre-saxon descent.
    That doesn't tell us much though. It's more telling us what we aren't than what we are.

    We still have to establish who those Pre-Saxon people were.

    Regarding the national geographic link, if 80% of the genepool is descended from people who came here after the ice age, then how does that link in with R1b, which arrived later, but now dominates the nation.
    Last edited by Jonny; 2012-06-21 at 22:41.

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    Wasn't there a study that came out that traced their background to Germany?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny View Post
    That doesn't tell us much though. It's more telling us what we aren't than what we are.

    We still have to establish who those Pre-Saxon people were.

    Regarding the national geographic link, if 80% of the genepool is descended from people who came here after the ice age, then how does that link in with R1b, which arrived later, but now dominates the nation.
    That's just a Y line, autosomal is what counts, they'd have to mate with more adapted native women and their dna would have the adaptations which would prevail.
    R1b arrived from western asia with the neolithic. It's amusing when some people talk about the R1b flavours of west Britain linking to the Basques as UrVolk because they're 90+% R1b when it only arrived there ~ 7kya. Clearly the matrilocal Basque women kicked out the Urmen mesolithics for the arriviste farmers and those populations of northern Europe with the least R1b are the aboriginals, thus the East Britons have a more ancient ancestry than the west (saving those short stocky UP types like me). East Brits got the neolithic from their genetic brethren over the channel, west Brits got theirs from protosemitic meds.
    Quote Originally Posted by mary
    There was no poverty in the Soviet time. It was only in the 80's that it started to happen due to incompetent leadership. People in the Soviet Union lived better than Americans do today.

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