User Tag List

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 62

Thread: Finno-Ugrism2545 days old

  1. #11
    Established Member
    Junior Member Aila's Avatar
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2010-05-26
    Posts
    1,148
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Freewheel View Post
    I was myself a Finnougrist when I was kinda 17-19 yo and as well I was quite anti-EU and anti-German then, remember that I loved Lennart Meri´s books- a truely ´Finno-Ugristic´ things- then.
    I think that in our early adult years we all were/are rather idealistic and opinionated.
    Instead of a “for/against” or “either -or” approach, I subscribe more to the “both-and” solution.
    I wasn’t against EU, but I wouldn’t like any of the EU countries lose their own cultures or their own uniquenesses in the process.


    A good “both-and” example (of paganism and Christianity) was the Orthodox Church:
    http://polarbearstale.blogspot.com.a...a-finland.html
    http://studiobooks.homestead.com/embooks.html


    I still love Meri’s writings and the way Meri weaves Siberian elements and parallels into his stories:

    http://jumalasuomi.tripod.com/meri.htm

    http://www.sermones.fi/2007/12/oulup...%93-elamanpuu/

    I would hate to see the day when these Siberian cultural parallels would lose all their meanings to us, the way anything “Siberian” has become so utterly meaningless to Western Finns. And it isn’t about denial or low self-esteem, they just simply are unable to relate.

    But without culture what have we got?
    A worship of a conceptually ideal self-image-in-the-eyes-of-others, dictated by the whims of consumer culture:
    http://www.saaristomerifestivaali.fi/img/kortti1.bmp


    When I first read Meri’s writings I felt that I had found a kindred spirit, and I was so proud of “us Finno-Ugrics”.
    Last edited by Aila; 2012-07-09 at 11:21.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Aila For This Useful Post:

    Freewheel (2012-07-09)

  3. # ADS
    Advertisement bot
    Join Date
    2013-03-24
    Posts
    All threads
       
     

  4. #12
    Established Member
    Scientia potentia est Vadim Verenich's Avatar
    Last Online
    2014-09-14 @ 20:52
    Join Date
    2011-05-26
    Posts
    1,083
    Location
    Estonia
    Gender
    Age
    41
    Y-DNA
    I2a1b1*
    mtDNA
    J1c
    Phenotype
    Pontid
    Metaethnos
    Ruthenian
    Ethnicity
    Belarusian
    Estonia Belarus Lithuania Grand Duchy

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aila View Post
    Being a bit of a Finno-Ugrist myself, the few little bits and pieces of Jaan Kaplinski's work that I have read I have liked very much.
    Kaplinski has a little bit of Polish blood, too.
    The way I see it, there're two types of people: those who spend their lives trying to build a future. And those who spend their lives trying to rebuild the past.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Vadim Verenich For This Useful Post:

    Aila (2012-07-09)

  6. #13
    Established Member
    Junior Member Qu84's Avatar
    Last Online
    2018-04-26 @ 21:28
    Join Date
    2012-01-06
    Posts
    404
    Gender
    Age
    45
    Politics
    No thanks!
    Religion
    Yes/No/Maybe
    Poland

    Default

    Half... to be precise:-)

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Qu84 For This Useful Post:

    Aila (2012-07-09), Vadim Verenich (2012-07-09)

  8. #14
    Established Member
    Forest skier Evi's Avatar
    Last Online
    2019-06-17 @ 08:14
    Join Date
    2009-10-26
    Posts
    2,820
    Gender
    Age
    36
    mtDNA
    T2d
    Phenotype
    Uralid-mixed

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaska View Post
    In Finland there are many people who don't want to get connected to Asians; therefore they choose to believe in unscientific theories, like "Uralic speakers followed the retreating glaciers from Central Europe to the north." It is due to their low "individual national" self esteem.

    We have an eastern language, and we have some eastern genes. Still, genetically we are overall just North Europeans. And even if we were genetically Asians, so what? People who think that genetic Asianness is something lower than genetic Europeanness, reveal their racism.
    I think that many people exaggerate Asianess of Uralic speakers. Most of Uralic speaking ethnic groups are predominantely European, with bigger or lesser North-Asian admixture. Some are mixed Eurasians, like Ob-Ugrians or some Samoyed ethnicities. But none are 100% pure Asians, not even Nganasans, who are kinda of outliers in Uralic language family (and who are outliers also genetically). Nganasans are estimated to be around 80% "Asian". They are most extreme Mongoloid-looking people among Uralic ethnic groups.
    Other Samoyedic people have bigger European input in their gene pool, we can quite safely say that Nenets and Selkups are Eurasian mixes of about 50-50% or 40-60% (with Asian being dominating component). But many people tend to exaggerate the "exotic" component, and in result they view Nenets or Selkups as "just Asians". Ob-Ugrians, Khanty and Mansi, are even more inclining towards European side, and yet they still are viewed as "Mongoloids" by many people. The children from mixed marriages between Khantys and Europeans are called "metises". Although in fact they are not real metises, but more like "quadroons". Similar artificial classification you can see also in Lapland. I was there in beginning this summer, and met some Saami people there. They talked about how they are "not white people". And in same time they looked indistinguishable from Finns! I didn´t get - how comes Saami are not white, but Finns are? Hmmm.....
    And strange thing is that IMO Saami look more "white" than Udmurts, yet Udmurts consider themselves as "white".
    Well, this all shows how everything depends on eye of beholder. If someone considers Finns as "Asians" because of one drop of Asian blood (one-drop-rule), then this is nothing too much surprising.

    I agree with you, that panicking of some Finns about their possible connections to East is stupid. There is nothing to panick or worry about. And those Finns are just short-sighted racists.

    Even if Finns are really predominately European, they still are connected to Eastern European ethnic groups. In this sense, Finns do have Eastern connections. Komi, Udmurts, Maris, Erzyas, Mokshas, they all are Eastern Europeans. They all are Eastern. And that´s how they perceive themselves too.

  9. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Evi For This Useful Post:

    Freewheel (2012-07-09), IsisEsmeralda1 (2012-08-20), Jaska (2012-07-09), Qu84 (2012-07-09)

  10. #15
    Established Member
    Turboslavic Caveman Pioterus's Avatar
    Last Online
    2019-05-21 @ 17:52
    Join Date
    2010-12-21
    Posts
    2,511
    Location
    Lasy Pomorza
    Gender
    Age
    42
    Y-DNA
    I2a1b2a1a1 (A2423+)
    mtDNA
    U3a1a(1)
    Race
    Europid
    Metaethnos
    Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Politics
    laissez faire
    Religion
    Metalhead
    Poland Lithuania Grand Duchy

    Default

    It would be quite unexpected for Poles to express andy anti-FU, ecpecially in it's "Ugrism" part, leaving alone some skirmishes on Anthro Foras we have real life, population-wide traditions that are far more important:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungary...land_relations

    In the Hungarian Revolution of 1848, a Polish general, Józef Bem, became a national hero of both Hungary and Poland. He was entrusted with the defence of Transylvania at the end of 1848, and in 1849, as General of the Székely troops.[1] On October 20, 1848 Józef Wysocki signed an agreement with the Hungarian government to form a Polish infantry battalion of about a thousand two hundred soldiers. After agreement Wysocki organized in Hungary "Polish legion" of volunteers contained 2090 foot soldiers and 400 Polish uhlans. They took part in the siege of the Arad fortress; in the spring of 1849 it participated in all important battles at Szolnok, Hatvan, Tapio-Biczke and Isaszegh. After the Battle at Temesvar in August 1849, and the Hungarian capitulation at Vilagos, eight hundred the remnants of the Legion escaped to Turkey.[2][3]
    During the Polish–Soviet War (1919-21), after the Bela Kun government in Hungary was overthrown, Hungary offered to send 30,000 cavalry to Poland's aid, but the Czechoslovak government refused (...) Nevertheless, some Hungarian munitions trains did reach Poland.
    Hitler would soon have cause to rue his decision regarding the fate of Carpatho-Ukraine. In six months, during his 1939 invasion of Poland, the common Polish-Hungarian border would become of major importance when Admiral Horthy's government, on the ground of long-standing Polish-Hungarian friendship, declined, as a matter of "Hungarian honor,"[8] Hitler's request to transit German forces across Carpathian Rus into southeastern Poland to speed that country's conquest. The Hungarian refusal allowed the Polish government and tens of thousands of military personnel to escape into neighboring Hungary and Romania, and from there to France and French-mandated Syria to carry on operations as the third-strongest Allied belligerent after Britain and France. Also, for a time Polish and British intelligence agents and couriers, including Krystyna Skarbek, used Hungary's Carpathorus as a route across the Carpathian Mountains to and from Poland.[9]
    During the Hungarian Revolution of 1956, Poles demonstrated their support for the Hungarians by donating blood for them; by 12 November 1956, 11,196 Poles had donated. The Polish Red Cross sent 44 tons of medical supplies to Hungary by air; still larger amounts were sent by road and rail.
    And finally:

    On March 12, 2007, Hungary's parliament declared March 23 the "Day of Hungarian-Polish Friendship", with 324 votes in favor, none opposed, and no abstentions. Four days later, the Polish parliament declared March 23 the "Day of Polish-Hungarian Friendship" by acclamation.[10]
    and the IEEE Milestone for breaking the Enigma Code goes to... Polish Cipher Bureau 1932-39

    “We know each other,” he agreed. “They say that you follow in my steps.”
    “I go my own way. But you, you had never, until just now, looked behind you. You turned back today for the first time.”
    Geralt remained silent. Tired, he had nothing to say. “How... How will it happen?” he asked her at last, coldly and without emotion. “I will take you by the hand,” she replied, looking him straight in the eye. “I will take you by the hand and lead you across the meadow, through a cold and wet fog.” “And after? What is there beyond the fog?” “Nothing,” she replied, smiling. “After that, there is nothing.”
    ― Andrzej Sapkowski
    Świat się zmienia, słońce zachodzi, a wódka się kończy [The world is changing, sun is setting and we're running out of Vodka.]
    ― Andrzej Sapkowski

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Pioterus For This Useful Post:

    Aila (2012-07-09)

  12. #16
    Established Member
    Six-toed Latvian Artūrs's Avatar
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2011-09-06
    Posts
    308
    Gender
    Metaethnos
    Baltic
    Ethnicity
    Latvietis
    Latvia

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemminkäinen View Post
    There is and has been this kind of action. Finns have done it, but Russians have often seen it as a political effort to act inside Russia. In a wider view, Livonians disappeared without any action from Russians, so they are not always guilty.
    But the Livonian national revival that started during the interbellum period in Latvia was eliminated due to Soviet border protection policy, which lead to the downfall of the traditional Livonian fishermen way of life, forcing them to migrate into Latvian inhabited territories and to diffuse.

    The Soviets regarded the Baltic Coast as the border of the Soviet Union which needs to be protected from possible western capitalist invasion. Because of this the border protection bases were established with garrisons. The villagers were forced to leave their homes and those who stayed could not even step on the beach not even considering such action as fishing. Before Soviet Era, the Livonian villages was sprawling centers near the sea. They were active churches, clubs, pubs and local rail connected the villages. Now because of Soviet military policies the villages became abandoned and poor. The Lielirbe was an large Livonian center- now there is no inhabitants there just summer stayers.
    http://latvianhistory.wordpress.com/...-of-livonians/

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Artūrs For This Useful Post:

    Lemminkäinen (2012-07-09)

  14. #17
    Established Member
    Junior Member Aila's Avatar
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2010-05-26
    Posts
    1,148
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evi View Post
    Similar artificial classification you can see also in Lapland. I was there in beginning this summer, and met some Saami people there. They talked about how they are "not white people". And in same time they looked indistinguishable from Finns! I didn´t get - how comes Saami are not white, but Finns are? Hmmm.....
    And strange thing is that IMO Saami look more "white" than Udmurts, yet Udmurts consider themselves as "white".
    "White" here may refer to a condition of separateness, disconnectedness and lack (of culture) rather than being about skin colour.

  15. #18
    Established Member
    Scientia potentia est Vadim Verenich's Avatar
    Last Online
    2014-09-14 @ 20:52
    Join Date
    2011-05-26
    Posts
    1,083
    Location
    Estonia
    Gender
    Age
    41
    Y-DNA
    I2a1b1*
    mtDNA
    J1c
    Phenotype
    Pontid
    Metaethnos
    Ruthenian
    Ethnicity
    Belarusian
    Estonia Belarus Lithuania Grand Duchy

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qu84 View Post
    Half... to be precise:-)
    Yes, he is a half of Pole (c)
    The way I see it, there're two types of people: those who spend their lives trying to build a future. And those who spend their lives trying to rebuild the past.

  16. #19
    Established Member
    Evolutionary Biologist
    Last Online
    2019-05-11 @ 12:17
    Join Date
    2010-07-25
    Posts
    1,476
    Gender
    Estonia

    Default

    Yes, Evi, i completely agree that Easterness of FUs is overrated by some FUs and by some others.Ofc it is.

  17. #20
    Established Member
    Forest skier Evi's Avatar
    Last Online
    2019-06-17 @ 08:14
    Join Date
    2009-10-26
    Posts
    2,820
    Gender
    Age
    36
    mtDNA
    T2d
    Phenotype
    Uralid-mixed

    Default

    I think that many people don´t know much about Uralic people. That they often are pred. European.

    Also culturally many Uralic people are European. I will post examples of Finno-Ugric folk costumes from Russia.

    Komi:

    [imglink]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/Komi/en.jpg[/imglink]
    [imglink]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/Komi/gala-koncert1.jpg[/imglink]

    Erzyas:

    [imglink]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Erzya_women.jpg[/imglink]

    Maris:

    [imglink]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/Mariesi/iz11.jpg[/imglink]

    Udmurts:

    [imglink]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/Udmurti/iz13.jpg[/imglink]

    Do they look like wearing traditional Eastern European or Northern European clothes? They do to me.

    And BTW do you think this is Eastern European dress?

    [imglink]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_x4o_B0M8X7I/TU9OusqfDII/AAAAAAAAAJQ/7amEatoz7oQ/s1600/Image3+s.jpg[/imglink]

    It´s from Siberia, was made by Khanty people.

    Nowdays Khanty don´t make dresses like that anymore, they make dresses like this now:

    [imglink]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/SL704130.jpg[/imglink]
    [imglink]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/160937486a9266da59b_2.jpg[/imglink]


    But is it so different from rather modern folk Moksha dresses? (Mokshas were continuing to wear folk costumes well into 1940-ties) Moksha and Erzya languages are closest relatives to Baltic-Finnic languages.

    [imglink]http://dic.academic.ru/pictures/wiki/files/77/Moksha_girls.jpg[/imglink]
    [imglink]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/Mordviesi/saran4.jpg[/imglink]

    Also Udmurts have had developed something similar during 20th century (they wore traditional clothes until 1980-ties):

    [imglink]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/Udmurti/x_45db7140.jpg[/imglink]

    You see how fashion can change.

  18. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Evi For This Useful Post:

    Artūrs (2012-07-09), Freewheel (2012-07-09), Jaska (2012-07-09), Lemminkäinen (2012-07-09), Sippola (2012-08-20)

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Finno Ugrian Noertheast Europe
    By Motörhead Remember Me in forum Archaeological sub-disciplines
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 2017-12-26, 08:58
  2. Finno-Ugric leaders
    By Evi in forum Finnic Domain
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: 2017-03-09, 20:17
  3. Finno-Ugric
    By Pot-Kettle in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 2011-11-02, 09:43
  4. Germanic vs Finno-Ugric 3:2
    By Freewheel in forum Guess Ethnicity
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 2011-10-16, 22:48
  5. Finno-Ugrics from East
    By Evi in forum Classification Requests
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 2010-06-18, 12:06

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
<