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Thread: Dark Cushtic Horner Phenotype3511 days old

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aware_Dog View Post


    What the hell ? Peh, is the 17th letter of the Biblical Hebrew Alphabet, which is close with the Ancient Phoenician Alphabet and it also means mouth.


    "Now it should be observed that Hebrew has no letter P, but uses instead the letter phe, which has the force of the Greek phi.

    Jerome, Archer, p. 143


    Quote Originally Posted by Aware_Dog View Post
    In Amharic there are two versions of the 'P sound', The first one is p'e and is the 29th letter of the Amharic Alphabet, this is the same type of P sound that is used for ityopia or pappas, the second is p'ee and it is the 33rd letter of Amharic Alphabet, it is a softer P sound used for words like Police, Paris, Pakistan etc.... If tigryina doesn't have a P sound, then how the heck do you think they pronounce words like Paulos, papas, ityopia, etc...?
    In Tigre and Tigrinya P occurs in foreign words

    Tucker, Margaret Arminel Bryan, p. 595


    A Semitic language in which P-sounds occur only in loanwords is Tigrinya, a Semitic language of Ethiopia and Eritrea. According to Woldu (1985), /p/ does not exist in the phonology of Tigrinya, though schooled Tigrinya speakers have little difficulty in pronouncing and perceiving it. It is mostly used for Italian loanwords (pane, polizia, posta, etc.).

    Bernd Heine, Derek Nurse, p. 65



    Quote Originally Posted by Aware_Dog View Post
    I have no clue as to what you are trying to say in this particular case, and it doesn't seem as if you do either.
    know your place.

    http://images.paraorkut.com/img/funn...tler-12235.jpg

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boosted J View Post
    know your place.

    A Semitic language in which P-sounds occur only in loanwords is Tigrinya, a Semitic language of Ethiopia and Eritrea. According to Woldu (1985), /p/ does not exist in the phonology of Tigrinya, though schooled Tigrinya speakers have little difficulty in pronouncing and perceiving it. It is mostly used for Italian loanwords (pane, polizia, posta, etc.).

    Bernd Heine, Derek Nurse, p. 65
    Is there any reason why you added "Semitic" in that quote when your source clearly does not state that and just says " A language"?

    Your source also says right below what you quoted (or rather mis-quoted):
    "The absence of /p/ in Tigrinya and other Ethio-semitic languages is due to the shift of an earlier *p to f"

    Which doesn't lend any credence to your comment earlier of Amharic having the P sound while Tigryina doesn't. Fact of the matter is that they both do have the P-Sound now in any case, loanwords or not.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aware_Dog View Post
    Is there any reason why you added "Semitic" in that quote when your source clearly does not state that and just says " A language"?
    Is there any reason why you're asking me this question other than trying to spin it into something it isn't? It's a typo - Google books are printed as images, meaning you have to type them out, hence why the typo. Did that extra semitic word change the paragraph at all? No. Did I make up the quote? No. Did I provide the exact link to its location? Yes. Stop wasting bandwidth, you're getting predictable again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aware_Dog View Post
    Your source also says right below what you quoted (or rather mis-quoted):
    "The absence of /p/ in Tigrinya and other Ethio-semitic languages is due to the shift of an earlier *p to f"
    You can't mis-quote something you didn't quote. BTW, other can be anything, i.e., Tigre, Dahlik. What ever the 'others' are, Amharic is not part of it, as it does have P sounds that are not loanwords.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aware_Dog View Post
    Which doesn't lend any credence to your comment earlier of Amharic having the P sound while Tigryina doesn't. Fact of the matter is that they both do have the P-Sound now in any case, loanwords or not.
    Name one word in Eritrean Tigrinya that has a P sound? You can't. The few that are present are all loanwords. Arabic also has loanword P sounds, that still does not change the fact that the Arabic language does not have P sounds on its own. Amharic has P sound loanwords (Ethiopia being one of them) and others that are part of Amharic.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aware_Dog View Post
    The migrations you speak of did not change the genetic landscape of the highlands to any significant degree, though they did change the linguistic and cultural landscape, however, the same could be said of lowlanders, that they have been influenced culturally and to some extent also linguistically by different migrations but it was not enough to change the genetic landscape, so these non-genetically associated cultural and/or linguistic diffusion can be seen to cancel each other out for both the highlands and lowlands, and we are left with only the genetic foot prints of the Original Cushitic language speakers that migrated from the highlands of Ethiopia to the North and South forming the basic tapestry of the genetic and phenotype variation of the horn.
    The thing is, there is no evidence that backs the theory of the Awi(or any other Highland Cushitic group) being a better representative of the Original Cushites than the lowland branches, there is a good chance that the early Cushite groups were already linguistically a diverse group. Therefore if the Oromos, Somalis and Afars descend from Cushite group A and the Awi descend from Cushite group B, you cannot state that the Awi are a better representative of the Original Cushites when their proto-Ancestors were most likely part of a different Highland sub group. The fact that they are still relatively speaking in the same geographic space as their ancestors does not give them an edge over the Lowlanders because genetically and linguistically speaking the latter are direct descendants of a Highland group, and hence they are a good representative of their ancestors despite the difference in geography.

    Lowlanders migrated from the highlands of Ethiopia, this means that they can find their biological roots in the highlands of Ethiopia, that is what the source I presented highlights. So what group still lives in the Ethiopian Highlands AND still speaks a deeply rooted cushitic language? The choices are not many. By the way, 'authenticity' is a bit of a strong word and is not really congruent with my original intention of bringing the topic up , being a better representative of an original or root population by virtue of descent does not really mean the population is more 'authentic', to me at least.
    You live in the West, but if i'm not mistaken, you still speak the language of your ancestors, practice the culture of your ancestors, carry the genetic code of your ancestors, this reality that your in a different geographic area than your ancestors has no bearing on the fact that you could be a good representative of what your ancestors looked like. Similarly with the descendants of the migrating Cushite groups, they too still speak the languages of their ancestors, practice cultural tradition passed on from their ancestors, and are genetically similar to their ancestors, hence Lowlanders are also as good of an example of what the ancients looked like as any modern Highland group.

    lol, Highland is a term that stands in contrast to lowland. If there was no lowland, there would be no high land, it would be flat land, hence, it is a logical extension of my opinionated argument to point out the contrast with lowlanders.
    Most people do not really realize the huge contrast in terrain made by the rift valley of Highland versus lowland in East Africa, here are small snippets about the Ethiopian Highlands for those who don't:
    Lowlanders were once Highlanders and Highlanders were once Lowlanders, many Horn Africans part of the Lowlander groups are also living in terrain defined as Highlands*, many Horn Africans part of the Highlander groups are also living in regions defined as lowland**. Therefore these labels aren't really proper terms for ethnic identification when it comes to history. If a source highlights the region from which several groups dispersed, it does not automatically mean those still living there today have a more legitimate claim on 'posterchild' status than those who live in a different region.

    *The Highlands of Ethiopia extend into parts of Eritrea and Northern Somalia.
    ** The Oromos are a good example, there are millions who live in the Highlands and millions who live in lowland terrain.

    Also, I mentioned the Awi as an example of an extant Agew speaking group, you shouldn't be fixated on my use of that particular group from Gojam too much. Check this Cushitic stratigraphy out : http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/7...ratigraphy.jpg
    Interesting stratigraphy, thanks for that. It however doesn't help your case with regards to the Highland groups that migrated and wether the descendants of those who stayed are a better representative than the descendants of those who migrated. For starters the migrations in question occurred between 5000 BP and 1000 BP, your stratigraphy shows that around that time the Cushitic groups had already formed a healthy diverse and complex families of languages. One family went a different way and formed the basis of modern lowlanders and another formed the basis of modern Highland Cushitic groups. This corroborates my earlier theory that there was already diversity in the Highlands around that time(and most likely alongside Proto-Semitic groups), and hence one cannot claim a certain group is more representative than another, based on geography, because based on that stratigraphy, one could consider the Beja people as the best representatives of the early Cushites because they have a direct link to the originals, with the least examples of splitting, regardless of the fact that they today geographically are largely confined to Eritrea and Sudan .
    Last edited by Cirith Ungol; 2010-03-19 at 10:50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lol_Race View Post
    Who are "we"? Many Amharas were Agews/Oromos a few centuries ago. About the findings available for the earliest speakers of Semitic languages in the Horn, we don't know how many actually spoke it during that time. It doesn't matter much anyway. We're discussing phenotypes, and an Eritrean is much more similar to an Agew than to a Yemeni so whoever made the switch to Semitic first is pretty irrelevent.
    I'm sure that Amharas use to speaking Amharic before they have any contact with Gallaz... Still many of them don't it's only the shwan (Am I wrong Agame?). Agames are just Agaw bilen and Raya-Oromos (many Agame ethiopians are raya which is Oromo)
    Last edited by Real_Amharas; 2017-04-01 at 20:48.

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