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Thread: Do you believe in black holes?2477 days old

  1. #11
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    There is nothing to believe. Black holes by definition are the mathematical model explaning the scientifically proven gravitational effects. The correct question to ask do you believe the current theory of black holes represents a real point of singularity or are black holes only a mathematical model that correctly predicts the behavior of gravitational forces meaning science has yet another very large onion to peel to understand gravity.
    Last edited by thetick; 2014-04-25 at 05:09.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thetick View Post
    There is nothing to believe. Black holes by definition are the mathematical model explaning the scientifically proven gravitational effects. The correct question to ask do you believe the current theory of black holes represents a real point of singularity or are black holes only a mathematical model that correctly predicts the behavior of gravitational forces meaning science has yet another very large onion to peel to understand gravity.
    Do you believe in Magnetic Monopoles?
    Last edited by Agelast; 2014-04-25 at 06:35.

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    Anti-matter "exists" but not really. We can only see the whirlpools throughout the universe, the black-holes. Whats on the other side of these whirlpools is impossible to truly know.
    Last edited by LexRD; 2014-04-25 at 06:31.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LexRD View Post
    Anti-matter "exists" but not really. We can only see the whirlpools throughout the universe, the black-holes. Whats on the other side of these whirlpools is impossible to truly know.
    That's not really a valid counterargument to the existence of black holes.

    I'm not trying to be a d&*%, but that's equivalent to saying:

    "We can only see that people die, but what is on the other side of death is impossible to know. Therefore death exists but not really".

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    It can't be a belief when we have so much evidence (including videos of how they eat up entire stars). Black holes are very much like planets/stars but with such a powerful gravity core that not even light can bypass them without being sucked in.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2014-04-25 at 07:59.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    It can't be a belief when we have so much evidence (including videos of how they eat up entire stars). Black holes are very much like planets/stars but with such a powerful gravity core that not even light can bypass them without being sucked in.
    True, but the first definition of a "black hole" is somewhere along the lines of an object so compact that nothing (not even light) can escape its gravity. Laplace actually speculated about the existence of such an object before Einstein's Theory of General Relativity predicted its existence. Now we have Hawking (Stephen) saying that there's no such thing as an event horizon, and instead a black hole only temporarily entraps matter, later emitting it as radiation. If such a theory were to be true (not saying it is or isn't, as I don't consider myself qualified to do so), then it'd greatly alter what we perceive as a black hole. Would we change the name of what we nowadays consider black holes? Or would we redefine black holes as something else, something to match our current understanding of it?

    In that sense we wouldn't be able to say black holes exist, provided we take the first option...since what we thought to be black holes are actually something else. Then this would be similar to the case of magnetic monopoles. Just because theory provides the possibility for its existence, doesn't mean it exists in nature. They've yet to find magnetic monopoles. Of course there'd be much greater implications if black holes worked differently to what is currently believed, but that's beside my point. I hope my comment was comprehensible since it's getting kind of late over here



    This has nothing to do with the topic of black holes, but it's always fascinated me how such a thing can occur.


    Edit: The previous post (somewhere around the 5th post) is what I naturally gravitate toward since that's what I've been taught to understand. Of course it was a very trivial response, but that's all that I thought necessary to justify my response. This post (#16) is for the sake of viewing the question in a different manner and presenting some alternative theories regarding the workings of black holes...all in hopes this thread keeps going :P
    Last edited by Agelast; 2014-04-25 at 08:57.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agelast View Post
    That's not really a valid counterargument to the existence of black holes.

    I'm not trying to be a d&*%, but that's equivalent to saying:

    "We can only see that people die, but what is on the other side of death is impossible to know. Therefore death exists but not really".
    I wasn't arguing their existence, I was confirming it. I was just pointing out the fact that it is impossible to see what is beyond a black-hole. Your analogy is incongruent to my statement anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LexRD View Post
    I wasn't arguing their existence, I was confirming it. I was just pointing out the fact that it is impossible to see what is beyond a black-hole. Your analogy is incongruent to my statement anyway.
    Ok, well I misunderstood you post then. But it's difficult to understand when you start your comment with the statement "antimater exists but not really", then proceed with your statement about how little we understand black holes. I wrongly correlated one statement with the other, but nonetheless, what a weird manner of phrasing your comment. You're right my statement is "incongruent" with yours, but only because I misunderstood your original claim. Otherwise it would've been valid, hence making the "analogy....anyway" unnecessary since either:

    1. it means my statement would've been invalid under any circumstance (which is not the case)

    or

    2. Is simply being redundant

    Anyway, pardon me for the misunderstanding.
    Last edited by Agelast; 2014-04-25 at 08:54.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agelast View Post
    Do you believe in Magnetic Monopoles?
    As stated in your post "Then this would be similar to the case of magnetic monopoles. Just because theory provides the possibility for its existence, doesn't mean it exists in nature. "

    I believe the evidence points to existence of monopoles, but they have not been found in nature. So not really a question to believe, but a question of does nature have have another level of complexity not yet known by science.

    I think both black holes and monopoles are not clearly understood by modern science.

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    Black holes are both awesome and terrifying. Not all scientists believe in black holes. Black holes aren't actually holes, the gravity wells often used in illustrations are mostly just visual tools to graphically represent a change in gravitational potential/force, as you near the black hole. Everything that falls into a black hole disappears from the universe. The term "hole" originated from this notion as an analogy. But the mystery of what occurs at the heart of a black hole is still unsolved. Some physicists thought that there might be a "singularity," a point of infinite density with some mass concentrated down into an infinitely small space. It’s difficult to imagine. Worse yet, any singularity leads to a black hole in this theory, so there’s no way we could observe a singularity directly. Observers falling into a black hole will never be able to measure any infinite curvature, since that only happens at the singularity, and no observer will live to be there, and as such could never relay that information to anyone. So, no observer inside a black hole can relay information to the outside world.

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