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Thread: Does anyone have Amerindian mtdna?2452 days old

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebersdorf View Post
    My grandson's auntie (NDN way) got her test results today. She descends from an Arapaho woman born in 1851 and is a C1.
    The only C1 in my database was C1b which was found in the Chippewa/Ojibwe as well as some Latin American tribes. This is old data; it’s likely just a broad haplogroup designation, so it’s not very informative.

    I’m aware of two researchers who are developing databases of NA haplotypes along with the tribal affiliation. The researcher working with genetic studies says, “Many researchers in the field “appear” disinterested in sub-typing Native American sequences.” The people working with the testing company find full mtDNA sequencing lacking in the client base.

    You can see this in “Native MTDNA in Puerto Ricans:” posted by jibarodepr http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...tion=mtresults

    In the Puerto Rican NA project, the haplotypes are listed as A, B, C etc. Many tested HVR1; some tested HVR2, only a few are complete sequences. The results also appear to be from early testing because the haplogroups are not more defined. For example the majority of samples in haplogroup “A” have “C16111T” which indicates Native American “A2” which has many sub-types.

    Most people with confirmed NA ancestry often don’t know their tribe; and the few Native Americans tested seldom report their tribal affiliation. All of this creates a lack of informative data.

    Currently I am looking into data available on ancient DNA in the Americas. There are about 1,000 ancient samples in the United States and its likely there is another 1,000 samples from Latin America. Recently, 74 new ancient samples from the east coast of Canada were published. Mexico has the oldest remains tested, but it’s difficult to track down some of their results.

    In the US there were at least 10 ancient remains that were claimed to be Caucasian. The Spirit Cave man was the last tested; he was found to be Native American like all of the others with the same claim. Unlike other ancient remains around the world there seems to be no lists or maps of ancient remains in the Americas. I guess it’s just a lack of interest.

    I asked this question because I was curious if there were people on ABF who knew their tribal affiliation. But like the general customer base of the DNA companies most don’t know their tribes. Since most report haplogroups such as A2, B2, C1 etc. it’s difficult to tell is these are their actual haplotypes or simply a broad haplogroup designation which has not been sub-typed.



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    I'll update my last post, my maternal haplogroup is A2, my ancestry at least since late 1500's is from Central/Southern Jalisco.

    Now where it gets more complicated is that I read during the colonial conquest of Jalisco, many Native American allies(Otomis, Nahuas, Tlaxcalans, etc) of the Spanish settled into the region where my ancestors are from. Therefore, I'm not sure if my A2 is from the local Jalisco tribes, or one of the Native ally settlers who moved to Jalisco.
    "Living or dying, it's not a big deal. What we should be concerned about is whether or not we're allowed to crawl to our graves."

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    My maternal haplogroup is B2. My grandmother was clear that her grandmother was Native. I didn't believe any of the family stories regarding Native ancestry personally because "common knowledge" says everyone claims Native ancestry. I did not expect my results to show native results. I was looking for an African mtDNA and that was my reason for even getting tested. "Common knowledge" and I were wrong. My maternal grandmother was right.

    My family has roots in the exact areas in the U.S. South from which Natives were removed in the 'Trail of Tears.' There are also family connections which I discovered had a likely origin in Cuba but ended up in the American South.

    For years, Native tribes have been very resistant to genetic testing and do not encourage it among their members.
    Last edited by CWF; 2018-02-03 at 21:04.

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    Quote Originally Posted by a_garcia49 View Post
    I'll update my last post, my maternal haplogroup is A2, my ancestry at least since late 1500's is from Central/Southern Jalisco.

    Now where it gets more complicated is that I read during the colonial conquest of Jalisco, many Native American allies(Otomis, Nahuas, Tlaxcalans, etc) of the Spanish settled into the region where my ancestors are from. Therefore, I'm not sure if my A2 is from the local Jalisco tribes, or one of the Native ally settlers who moved to Jalisco.
    It seems like the Jalisco local tribes are few in numbers. Were they a nomadic people in the past?

    The Mexican Indian warriors who allied themselves with the Spaniards often moved with their families, so it is possible that your Indian ancestor were “Native settlers” and locals. These Central Mexican Indians, “Indian conquistadors,” were treated better by the Spaniards compared to the local natives, they also came to Guatemala for war, and they were one of the main reason why Spain was able take over Mexico & Mesoamerica.
    Last edited by Queue; 2018-02-03 at 21:36.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Queue View Post
    It seems like the Jalisco local tribes are few in numbers. Were they a nomadic people in the past?

    The Mexican Indian warriors who allied themselves with the Spaniards often moved with their families, so it is possible that your Indian ancestor were “Native settlers” and locals. These Central Mexican Indians, “Indian conquistadors,” were treated better by the Spaniards compared to the local natives, they also came to Guatemala for war, and they were one of the main reason why Spain was able take over Mexico & Mesoamerica.
    Yeah, the more I read about this, the more it bums me out lol.

    In the past, many of the Jalisco tribes were at least semi-nomadic, some of them were sedentary but that was in the northern part of the state. The part of Jalisco where my ancestry is from, seems to have been Spanish/Indian ally territory since 1530.

    I've spoken with one of my DNA cousins who has done extensive research on the specific area and she's stated how in the early colonial period, many of the native settler families were held in high esteem and the Spanish were the ones who would be "marrying up" so to speak.

    Goes to show that history is much more complicated .
    "Living or dying, it's not a big deal. What we should be concerned about is whether or not we're allowed to crawl to our graves."

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    Quote Originally Posted by a_garcia49 View Post
    Yeah, the more I read about this, the more it bums me out lol.

    In the past, many of the Jalisco tribes were at least semi-nomadic, some of them were sedentary but that was in the northern part of the state. The part of Jalisco where my ancestry is from, seems to have been Spanish/Indian ally territory since 1530.

    I've spoken with one of my DNA cousins who has done extensive research on the specific area and she's stated how in the early colonial period, many of the native settler families were held in high esteem and the Spanish were the ones who would be "marrying up" so to speak.

    Goes to show that history is much more complicated .
    Yeah, same in Guatemala. It seemed like the mostly Central Mexican Indians who came with the Spaniards saw themselves superior to the natives who fought/surrendered to the Spanish/Mexican alliance. I read that the Indian conquistadors viewed themselves as the conquerors as much the Spaniards did. In a way it was as much of a Nahua conquest as much as a Hispanic one, at least in the beginning. Which makes sense, most of them were a Nahua people and their language for a while become the lingua franca of “New Spain.” Even in Mayan Guatemala there are probably more towns/cities place names with Nahuatl origin than Spanish. Same is probably true in Mexican regions where Nahuatl was originally not spoken.

    According to Laura E. Mathew, in Memories of Conquest: Becoming Mexicano in Colonial Guatemala
    The Mexicanos of Ciudad Vieja did not remember their role in the conquest as auxiliary, nor the Spaniards as being in total control of military campaigns. Instead, they remembered the invasion of Guatemala as a joint affair and their own role in it with pride. The Mexicanos’ mostly triumphant recollections of the period are not hegemonic. Like all memories they are selective, woven and rewoven into stories of the past that, in this case, explained and justified the Mexicanos’ superior position in colonial Guatemala.
    Here is a quote by a Spaniard by of name of Gonzalo Ortiz in 1562
    And these Indians conquistadors of New Spain, having conquered and won this land, stayed in large numbers to settle the old city Almolonga, which is near to Guatemala [Antigua]; where they and their children and descendants now are and live and . . . many Spanish captains went out from this city of Guatemala with many people to conquer and settle the provinces of Cuzcatlan, which the Spaniards now call San Salvador, and the province of Honduras and the provinces of Verapaz and that of Chiapa; and this witness saw that with those captains went many Indians from among those Mexica, Tlaxcaltecas, Zapoteca, Cholulteca, and Mixteca conquistadors, and those of other nations.
    This makes me wonder, which population do most contemporary Mestizos come from, the more subjugated natives or those who allied themselves with the Spaniards?

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    From my last post, I'm almost convinced that mine is Tapuia not Tupi, from the interior of Pernambuco, sertão.
    both tribes were enemies actually.
    Adieu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Queue View Post
    Yeah, same in Guatemala. It seemed like the mostly Central Mexican Indians who came with the Spaniards saw themselves superior to the natives who fought/surrendered to the Spanish/Mexican alliance. I read that the Indian conquistadors viewed themselves as the conquerors as much the Spaniards did. In a way it was as much of a Nahua conquest as much as a Hispanic one, at least in the beginning. Which makes sense, most of them were a Nahua people and their language for a while become the lingua franca of “New Spain.” Even in Mayan Guatemala there are probably more towns/cities place names with Nahuatl origin than Spanish. Same is probably true in Mexican regions where Nahuatl was originally not spoken.

    According to Laura E. Mathew, in Memories of Conquest: Becoming Mexicano in Colonial Guatemala


    Here is a quote by a Spaniard by of name of Gonzalo Ortiz in 1562


    This makes me wonder, which population do most contemporary Mestizos come from, the more subjugated natives or those who allied themselves with the Spaniards?
    Initially it boggled my mind how the tension between Mexico and Guatemala has been alive even before Spaniards arrived, I always assumed it was during the dispute when they broke off from Post-Colonial Mexico.

    You bring up a good question about modern mestizo people, we already know that the indigenous component of mestizos tends to be much more mixed than the indigenous who didn't assimilate.

    For the longest time, I assumed my indigenous ancestors were the rebels, cause I have a Q-M3 paternal haplo, which was different to majority of Jalisco Mexican mestizos with R1B, but I now see they were probably allies .
    "Living or dying, it's not a big deal. What we should be concerned about is whether or not we're allowed to crawl to our graves."

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    Quote Originally Posted by a_garcia49 View Post
    Initially it boggled my mind how the tension between Mexico and Guatemala has been alive even before Spaniards arrived, I always assumed it was during the dispute when they broke off from Post-Colonial Mexico.
    Actually, any tension between Guatemala and Mexico today has nothing to do with the Mesoamerican past or even colonial past. What exist today is probably due to sport rivalry, and maybe between very nationalistic Mestizos/White kids from both countries (like you said post-colonial stuff). The tension between any Indigenous groups in Guatemala and Mexico no longer exists, hasn’t for centuries and even back then some were allied tribes and kingdoms. The point of my post was to show how Indigenous allied to the Spanish extensively settled all over Mesoamerica/New Spain, and likely changed the Indigenous demographics throughout what was Mesoamerica.

    You bring up a good question about modern mestizo people, we already know that the indigenous component of mestizos tends to be much more mixed than the indigenous who didn't assimilate.

    For the longest time, I assumed my indigenous ancestors were the rebels, cause I have a Q-M3 paternal haplo, which was different to majority of Jalisco Mexican mestizos with R1B, but I now see they were probably allies .
    I think it’s actually pretty cool that you have a native paternal lineage, rebel or not. At least you know that your native male ancestors had suffered less, and your paternal lineage likely comes from native warriors. Other Mestizos are not so lucky, their native male lineage was wiped out.

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    Default Amerindian Haplogroup A2f1

    I see this is an older Thread.

    I was recently tested as mtdna Haplogroup A2f1

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