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Thread: "English is a Scandinavian language"2510 days old

  1. #61
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    "I" in old east norse was pronounced "yack", /jak/, in Swedish the syllable got lenghtened, and the final k was softened and droped, giving us modern /jɑ:/, in Danish the "a" was umlauted by the preceding i to a e, and the final consonant was vocalized to /j/, giving us modern "jeg", pronounced like English "yay".

    Both descend form Proto-norse "ek", retained in some Norwegian and Danish dialects as "eg" the "iak" pronunciation found elsewhere was a kind diphthongization that is also found in words like "mjölk" and "hjälp", both of which has an "e" in proto-germ.

    In most west Germanic dialects it was "ik", pronounced "ick", like in modern Dutch, English softened the k to a "ch" sound giving a pronunciation like modern English "itch", the "ch" sound was later dropped, lengthening the vowel to "I" /I:/, that was diphthongized to modern English /ai/ during the great vowel shift.

    English pronounced all the letters in it's alphabet just like in modern German and Italian during the middle ages, but this changed during the great vowel shift, that turned many long vowels into Diphthongs, a similar development also happened in German, Dutch and Scanian.

    The spelling didn'tt change however.

    There are many dialects in northern England that resisted this shift, so they pronounce words like "house" as "hoos", /hu:s/ instead of southern English /haus/



    However, these diphthongization are divided by hundreds of years and don't have anything to do with "North" or "West" to do. Anglo-Saxons, Vikings and Germans all lived in "hoos" All diphthongs in English are secondary, developed after the old English period.
    Last edited by HinGambleGoth; 2014-06-05 at 19:23.
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    Classic swedish film Nybyggarna where Karl-Oskar (Max Von Sydow) speak småländska, a south Swedish dialect which I'm also influenced by from living here since 1991. My accent is also influenced from living in Skåne between 1985-1991, and having one parent from northern Sweden and one from Stockholm (Where I'm also from originally.) also had an impact on my accent, making it a sort of hybrid. But leaning mostly towards the småländska dialekten.

    Btw, the film is available as torrent with english subs if you search it. The first movie is called Utvandrarna. which also is available on torrent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    All that said, the pronunciation of Danish "Jeg" is not so far from "I", it is in fact more similar to "I" than it is to Swedish "jag". You cannot always count on Romance spelling. Perhaps that is a later development, and so unrelated to the origin of the languages.

    Ps. put in the word "jeg" in Google translate (but no other words) and select Danish, then you can hear it, if you press the speaker icon in the lower right corner of the text field. If you put other words, like a sentence, it will mess up the words.


    Sounds like slavic 'Ja', which also means 'I', while sound of english 'I' is like 'aj'
    ...

    Actually swedish 'Jag' sounds more like 'Ja', while danish 'Jeg' sounds like 'jaj'
    Last edited by duje; 2014-06-05 at 20:19.

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    The process that turned "ek" into Swedish jag is the very same process that makes speakers of southern American English pronounce "cat", as "ceeaat", it's called vowel breaking, a kind of diphthongization, probably caused by strong stress on the vowel, a typical feature of Germanic pronunciation. Besides, the current pronunciation of these pronouns didn't evolve until the modern period, Vikings would say "yack", "eck", or "eeack", not "yay".

    This, is actually irrelevant, since English speakers didn't pronounce "I", as /ai/, during the period when old Norse was spoken in England, that pronunciation didn't evolve until the 16th century, The Saxons said "Itch", spelt ic, or "ick", like in modern Dutch and Low German.
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    ^^ I think it's relevant since it's such a basic word and reflects the genealogy closer to other west Germanic languages rather than north Germanic.

    But all Germanic languages are Scandinavian languages anyway, if Sweden is the proto-Germanic urheimat, which seems to be the case based on the linguistic evidence we discussed last year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
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    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    ^^ I think it's relevant since it's such a basic word and reflects the genealogy closer to other west Germanic languages rather than north Germanic.

    But all Germanic languages are Scandinavian languages anyway, if Sweden is the proto-Germanic urheimat, which seems to be the case based on the linguistic evidence we discussed last year.

    The coastal languages are considered by some to be the Ingvaeonic group in a triangular relationship with west & north.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingvaeonic_languages

    Fries, Saxon, Anglic & Jutish are all part of that and a few centuries before Belgic. The Danes became the dominant power over Anglic & Jutish and the Northern part of Fries & Saxon so Jutish changed and is now considered North but with the definite article still before the noun. Saxon was altered by Frankish domination and Dutch came from low Franconian overlaying Fries, its resemblance to English coming from the latter. I've found Danish to be at least as similar to English as Nederlands.
    Interesting that your diagram has Danish with A, F & J and not with the later Vikings.
    I thought the Urheimat was Scania Denmark and Sleswig Holsten (not the German spelling).
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldPretan View Post
    The coastal languages are considered by some to be the Ingvaeonic group in a triangular relationship with west & north.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingvaeonic_languages

    Fries, Saxon, Anglic & Jutish are all part of that and a few centuries before Belgic. The Danes became the dominant power over Anglic & Jutish and the Northern part of Fries & Saxon so Jutish changed and is now considered North but with the definite article still before the noun. Saxon was altered by Frankish domination and Dutch came from low Franconian overlaying Fries, its resemblance to English coming from the latter. I've found Danish to be at least as similar to English as Nederlands.
    Yes I'm familiar with Ingvaeonic, but I'm not sure how valid it is. I guess it can be considered a valid Germanic subgroup today.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldPretan View Post
    Interesting that your diagram has Danish with A, F & J and not with the later Vikings.
    Not my diagram

    Quote Originally Posted by OldPretan View Post
    I thought the Urheimat was Scania Denmark and Sleswig Holsten (not the German spelling).
    Proto-Germanic seems to have evolved in Sweden, or possibly even Finland, see thread here:

    http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...onze-Age-other
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    “A wise man makes his own decisions; an ignorant man follows public opinion.” ― Chinese proverb

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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    another scientifically unfounded nonsense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
    I would say Norwegian is more similar to English and Swedish is more similar to German, at least in vocabulary. Swedish has borrowed lots of German words, this is mainly from the popularity of old German literature in Sweden, and the fact that German used to be taught as a mandatory language in Swedish schools in the past.

    On the other hand, when I check out Norwegian words, I often get the feeling that they resemble their English cognates more than their Swedish equivalents do. A good example would be milk, which in Norwegian is melk, but Swedish, it's "mjölk" (in Nynorsk on the other hand, it's pronounced "mjølk").
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    “A wise man makes his own decisions; an ignorant man follows public opinion.” ― Chinese proverb

    “Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.” ― H. L. Mencken

    “The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.” ― Socrates

    “Damnant quod non intelligunt.” ― Latin proverb

    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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