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Thread: Ramesses III was E1b1a1742 days old

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by birko19 View Post
    I don't think it's that surprising really. Even though the lineage is not as common in North Africa, it's not rare either.
    How present is it in North Africa?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethioboy View Post
    Yea I just checked, and it looks pretty reliable (using an online predictor tool e3ba came up at 68% probability while other haplogroups were <15%)

    Pretty interesting, though then again its just one man so it doesn't really give much information in terms of his autosome and the ydna of the people
    I tried out Whit Athey's predictor and it seems like E1b1a and E1b1b are the only possibilities, with the former being significantly more likely. But when I played around with the markers, I noticed that when using all STR alleles except DYS 390 = 21, E1b1b is by far the most likely possibility (~99% probability). But the DYS 390 = 21 allele shifted it significantly in favor of E1b1a.

    I looked into this further by quickly looking at the FTDNA E-M35 project. In the whole project, I found just one example of a confirmed E1b1b1 sample with DYS 390 = 21, a Chadian sample carrying E1b1b1b, which I think refers to Z827. Z827 is ancestral to Z830 and North African V257. So what we're seeing here might just be a very old E1b1b1 lineage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunrise View Post
    How present is it in North Africa?
    From the figures I've seen, anywhere from 1% to 10%.
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    Ramesses may simply belong to Z827. If that single Chadian sample hadn't been tested, there would have been no way to come up with this. This really shows the importance of increasing the amount of samples from Northeast Africa and nearby, if we are to understand the various branches of E1b1b1. They are really lacking in the public projects.

    The absence of E1b1a in modern Sudanese populations strongly suggests that its presence in modern Egyptians is a result of more recent events. Moreover, even if there's a theoretical possibility that some E-M2 in Egypt is more ancient, one has to consider that E1b1b remains a significant possibility for Ramesses according to the predictor tools, and E1b1b is a lot more common in Egypt than E1b1a. So for now, I would bet that Ramesses actually belongs to E1b1b, probably Z827. Close matches may have been found with Northeast African samples from around Egypt or the Eastern Sahara, if we had some.

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    Surprised = Shows how much you know about ancient Egypt (close minded)

    Not Surprised = open minded view of history and geography
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    I'm not surprised by these results at all, knowing the history of contemporary west African population movements during the period of the green Sahara does not make these results surprising at all. However, I'm sure their will be those whom these results will not sit well with, whom will project all sorts of toxic dynamics into the equation due to their very own racial egos. Ramesses III was E1b1a, no if ands or buts about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulaar View Post
    Surprised = Shows how much you know about ancient Egypt (close minded)

    Not Surprised = open minded view of history and geography
    It's called closed-minded. And believing ancient Egypt was as Negroid as Nigeria isn't open-minded. Moreover, it could be that they got the mutation wrong, and Ramses carried E1b1b or something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    It's called closed-minded. And believing ancient Egypt was as Negroid as Nigeria isn't open-minded. Moreover, it could be that they got the mutation wrong, and Ramses carried E1b1b or something.
    LOL!
    How convenient you would post something like this

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HiiPower View Post
    I'm not surprised by these results at all, knowing the history of contemporary west African population movements during the period of the green Sahara does not make these results surprising at all. However, I'm sure their will be those whom these results will not sit well with, whom will project all sorts of toxic dynamics into the equation due to their very own racial egos. Ramesses III was E1b1a, no if ands or buts about.
    Exactly. Truer words never spoken.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny View Post
    Oh boy.

    How long before someone claims that all Ancient Egyptians living across several millenia were 100% Sub-Saharans, based on this one thing?
    LOL @ people of your ilk feeling so uncomfortable with the results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lol_Race View Post
    I tried out Whit Athey's predictor and it seems like E1b1a and E1b1b are the only possibilities, with the former being significantly more likely. But when I played around with the markers, I noticed that when using all STR alleles except DYS 390 = 21, E1b1b is by far the most likely possibility (~99% probability). But the DYS 390 = 21 allele shifted it significantly in favor of E1b1a.

    I looked into this further by quickly looking at the FTDNA E-M35 project. In the whole project, I found just one example of a confirmed E1b1b1 sample with DYS 390 = 21, a Chadian sample carrying E1b1b1b, which I think refers to Z827. Z827 is ancestral to Z830 and North African V257. So what we're seeing here might just be a very old E1b1b1 lineage.
    I looked at the haplozone database for 390 and the 21 allele is present in an m78 and m35* individual (both from algeria).. this is also with the z827 chadian so its not necesarily a z827 marker.. more refinement is needed. But considering that one str value is what separates it from e1b1b1 then I agree the more likely thing is that he was e1b1b1 given his geographic location.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunrise View Post
    LOL @ people of your ilk feeling so uncomfortable with the results.
    The fuck do I care?

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