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View Poll Results: Should the government stop giving cash payments as part of some welfare plans?

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  • Yes. Government subsidies to welfare recipients should only allowed to purchase necessities.

    10 76.92%
  • No. People should be able to decide how to use the money themselves.

    3 23.08%
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Thread: Should cash payments ever be given to welfare recipients?2434 days old

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anodyne View Post
    Here in the states people can make a shit load of money plowing snow. Often times kids go door to door asking people if they'd pay them to shovel their snow. They walk away with a pretty penny.
    That happens here as well, but you really have a more entrepreneurial (?) mindset in the US, which is very good. I know a kid in Canada who started his own business at ~14 cleaning people's and companies' windows. That would be very remarkable if it occured in Sweden.

    Also, clearing snow of the railways is probably on a bit larger scale than plowing people's driveways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny View Post
    The only way to do that is by not taxing people in the first place due to the economic calculation problem.
    Yeah. And the easiest way to avoid cancer, AIDS, pain and suffering is to not live at all. Lol

    But I definitely agree that taxing should be kept low.

    And the money taken from you by the state simply shouldn't go to paying people for not working. I agree there as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Why is manual labour reserved for the unemployed (solved by having low salaries) wrong?

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    It causes multiplier effect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior View Post
    It causes multiplier effect.
    This does not exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simi View Post
    Why is manual labour reserved for the unemployed (solved by having low salaries) wrong?
    Because you are forcing people to earn money that originally belonged to them. Either that or you are taking money by force to pay for things people don't want.

    I can sense people thinking,
    "If we stop paying people their welfare, how would they survive?"
    Easy, they get jobs.
    "But there aren't enough jobs available."
    Not at the minute. But where did that money you stopped paying to those people go to? (Let's say it adds up to $1m per year) It didn't just disappear. If you don't pay them, and don't tax people in the first place, that same $1m is in the pockets of taxpayers who earned it. Obviously they will spend that $1m, and this will create jobs worth you guessed it, $1m. However, taxpayers have gotten their $1m worth of goods and services, instead o what they get in the current system, fuck all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simi View Post
    Also, clearing snow of the railways is probably on a bit larger scale than plowing people's driveways.

    Yeah. And the easiest way to avoid cancer, AIDS, pain and suffering is to not live at all. Lol
    I guess your city workers are understaffed for something like that but I would think the local governments would put out word they need people to shovel snow. Right now in NYC they're hiring people, from manual workers and tradesmen to clerical workers because of Sandy on Fed money for the next few months. They're paying very well. For someone who is unemployed Sandy was a blessing. For everyone else it fucked everything up for them. Well, in some areas. My area was fortunate in comparison to a place like Staten Island, which was a serious disaster.
    Last edited by Anodyne; 2012-12-25 at 01:17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anodyne View Post
    I guess your city workers are understaffed for something like that but I would think the local governments would put out word they need people to shovel snow. Right now in NYC they're hiring people, from manual workers, tradesmen, to clerical workers because of Sandy on Fed money for the next few months. They're paying very well. For someone who is unemployed Sandy was a blessing. For everyone else it fucked everything up for them. Well, in some areas. My area was fortunate in comparison to a place like Staten Island, which was a serious disaster.
    Understaffed is half the truth. There is something wrong with municipal organization, and it's always been this way. I've NEVER heard Swedish officials saying they're looking for people to shovel or clean up after storms. Maybe a Swede living in the Northern wilderness can correct me, but I seriously doubt it. It's our mentality

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    Poverty for many people is not just an economic status but a way of thinking/way of life. Entertainment and consumption expenses rather than long-term investments in education or injecting capital into starting a business or job opportunities are valued more among the poor. Social status for the lower income is linked to perceived wealth. So someone that is on welfare will spend $100 on a pair of brand name shoes or buy a big screen digital TV rather than buying books for their kids or paying a job search company to find them a job. This does not apply to all but applies to many. So no I disagree with giving cash. They need services as well as assistance in achieving self sufficiency and managing finances. I am very much against the design of many welfare systems because they essentially are maintaining poverty cycle.
    Last edited by chicken; 2012-12-25 at 02:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simi View Post
    Understaffed is half the truth. There is something wrong with municipal organization, and it's always been this way. I've NEVER heard Swedish officials saying they're looking for people to shovel or clean up after storms. Maybe a Swede living in the Northern wilderness can correct me, but I seriously doubt it. It's our mentality
    The American mentality:



    Oh, Simpsons I love you so. Where would I be without your brilliance in this age of darkness?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chicken View Post
    Poverty for many people is not just an economic status but a way of thinking/way of life. Entertainment and consumption expenses rather than long-term investments in education or injecting capital into starting a business or job opportunities are valued more among the poor. Social status for the lower income is linked to perceived wealth. So someone that is on welfare will spend $100 on a pair of brand name shoes or buy a big screen digital TV rather than buying books for their kids or paying a job search company to find them a job. This does not apply to all but applies to many. So no I disagree with giving cash. They need services as well as assistance in achieving self sufficiency and managing finances. I am very much against the design of many welfare systems because they essentially are maintaining poverty cycle.
    You know why this is, right?
    Politicians and the government want to LOOK like they are helping, so that people think they are compassionate or people will want to vote for them. It's more a Democrat thing though. They essentially are thinking "Let's keep these people locked in a life of poverty while putting on a facade that we care. That way, people will vote for us and think we are trying to solve the problem, unlike those evil Republicans over there, but really we are just keeping people dependent so they vote for us, and we really couldn't care less about them other than their vote."

    That way, there will always be the needy to be manipulated for their vote.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simi View Post
    That happens here as well, but you really have a more entrepreneurial (?) mindset in the US, which is very good. I know a kid in Canada who started his own business at ~14 cleaning people's and companies' windows. That would be very remarkable if it occured in Sweden.
    People here in the states are very entrepreneurial minded. we are heavily encouraged to be like that when we are young.

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    Nope.

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