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Thread: West Slavic admixture in Ukraine (Mielnik-Sikorska et al. 2012)1735 days old

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by muso View Post
    In regard to this link, M458 (and L1029, for that matter) are found very infrequently in Northern Italy. I think your Serbundt descendants are the only one. Therefore, I would not call M458 or L1029 Germanic. It was present in what is now eastern Germany in antiquity, and is possible that the y dna could have come to Italy with the Longbards, as they were likely a multi-tribal federation.
    I agree with you in regards to north Italy.
    I find L1029+ as the ancient west baltic people
    PF=(37% Basque, French, Orcadian, Spanish) (63% Tuscan)
    Dodecad=N_Italian 7.20, O_Italian 10.29, North_Italian 10.61, Tuscan 12.12
    Euro K13=North Euro 39%, Med 34%, Caucasus 11%, West Central Asia 8%,
    MDLP=Paleo_Euro 29%, Celto-Germanic 21%, East Euro 14%, Caucasian 13%
    MDLP22=North Italian 1.73, Bulgarian 6.42, Romanian 7.47, Swiss 7.47

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    muso (2012-12-30)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinkar View Post
    I find L1029+ as the ancient west baltic people


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    Quote Originally Posted by Otto Prohaska View Post

    Are you saying that origins and spread of L1029 equates with the Lusatian culture? If so, I agree.

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    If the Lithuanian R1a is largely of the M-458 variety, then it would seem that this haplogroup type is neither exclusively Slavic nor West Slavic.

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    Blueallover (2013-01-03)

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmytro View Post
    If the Lithuanian R1a is largely of the M-458 variety, then it would seem that this haplogroup type is neither exclusively Slavic nor West Slavic.
    Most Lithuanian R1a is R1a-Z280 (Z92+). R1a-M458 isn't particularly common in the Baltic States.

    R1a-M458 looks like a Lusatian Culture and proto-West Slavic marker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by muso View Post
    Are you saying that origins and spread of L1029 equates with the Lusatian culture? If so, I agree.
    Yes. I think it's associated with the Lusatian Culture and/or the Lugii Confederation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polako View Post
    Most Lithuanian R1a is R1a-Z280 (Z92+). R1a-M458 isn't particularly common in the Baltic States.
    Thanks. That hadn't been made clear in the first answer to my query. Is the non-458 Ukrainian R1a of the Mielnik article also of the Z92+ type?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmytro View Post
    Thanks. That hadn't been made clear in the first answer to my query. Is the non-458 Ukrainian R1a of the Mielnik article also of the Z92+ type?
    Almost all of it is R1a-Z280, and a lot of that is Z92+. There's also some R1a-Z93, but probably only a couple percent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Otto Prohaska View Post
    Yes. I think it's associated with the Lusatian Culture and/or the Lugii Confederation.
    You cannot have both, lusatian culture began 1300BC
    Lugii tribe did not form until 350BC

    The gap is too huge, plus Lugii are a mix of many ethnic people

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polako View Post
    Most Lithuanian R1a is R1a-Z280 (Z92+). R1a-M458 isn't particularly common in the Baltic States.

    R1a-M458 looks like a Lusatian Culture and proto-West Slavic marker.
    Lusatian culture was present before germanic and slavic people where there, there was someone else
    PF=(37% Basque, French, Orcadian, Spanish) (63% Tuscan)
    Dodecad=N_Italian 7.20, O_Italian 10.29, North_Italian 10.61, Tuscan 12.12
    Euro K13=North Euro 39%, Med 34%, Caucasus 11%, West Central Asia 8%,
    MDLP=Paleo_Euro 29%, Celto-Germanic 21%, East Euro 14%, Caucasian 13%
    MDLP22=North Italian 1.73, Bulgarian 6.42, Romanian 7.47, Swiss 7.47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinkar View Post
    You cannot have both, lusatian culture began 1300BC
    Lugii tribe did not form until 350BC

    The gap is too huge, plus Lugii are a mix of many ethnic people
    No one knows who the Lugii were, but we can now see that there's been genetic continuity in what is now Poland for much longer than the migration period, because R1a-M458 and R1a-L365 are native to Poland. So the people of the Lusatian Culture could have easily been the ancestors of the Lugii, for the most part anyway.

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