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Thread: Where did the Phoenicians come from?2392 days old

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Not quite like me...
    You ain't talking about shit right here so I'll skip!

    ^^ So in other words: Lebanon + the Alawite state = Phoenicia:
    Why are you stating the Geo-Political area for? You have no point here at all!

    So yeah, the Phoenicians looked similar to me and they came from the modern region of Lebanon and its surroundings, as can be seen in one of the maps you posted.
    You came to the conclusion in first bold statement from the second bold statement...So stating the contemporary name of the same geographic land mass equates to a phenotype for it's ancient inhabitants? Aren't you the one who brought up my mental capacity in your first reply . Think about how illogical you sound and how baseless any conclusion on their ancient phenotype as far as your explanation is concerned really is!

    If that was true, which it's not, but if it were, then blacks got totally pwned in the Middle East
    OMG this is so weak! Have you no shame with your dishonesty. Are you so weak minded that you have to pretend as though you do not see the plethora of fat lipped, wide nosed, beady headed nobility, figurines, and God/Goddess statues found throughout the Middle East? You must really feel inferior to black people if you must make such bold face lies and exhibit such a shameless denial of the ancient reality.








    Depictions come from here:



    Why are you trying to claim that these fat lipped, wide negroid nosed, dark browned skinned (in the paintings) people were not black? Who else has these features?

    Just quit watching ESPN so don't feel inferior and won't have to validate your "position" in the "racial hierarchy"through delusional racist commentaries on the internet (keyboard warrior only)

    Have you ever thought of it that way?
    That's a stupid thought so no.

    Why not? That the Phoenicians looked like Zidane is a million times more realistic than that they looked like Suge Knight.
    You're just talking out of your ass dude. This ridiculous perception of history and ancient people has been refuted through imagery in this thread already, rather or not you can come grips with this fact or not.

    Here's a Phoenician sarcophagus from around 480-450 BC:



    ^^ Personally I think he resembles our resident forum member Helios, but does that look like a fat lipped nigger to you?
    Before I could even state the obvious YOU ALREADY DID! You already know that the beady hair on that individual isn't consistent with dog like texture of "Caucasoid" hair, and AT BEST (in your case) represents a mulatto. You comparing an individual from this region to this ancient beady headed wide nosed (they had to chip away at it like most of the others), and fat (kissable) lipped individual..what does that say about the ancient ancestry of that individual (spare me the BS).

    ‘Fight the Eurocentric powah, for mama Africa, yo!’
    What "race" are you? Simple question.

    I fail to realise what kind of connection the Natufians (who weren't Negroes in any case),
    Because you are INCAPABLE (that mental capacity again) of getting through your pile of bullshit to the side of common sense/reason. You say that the Natufians were not black..well test results from cranial studies (phenotype) say you're completely wrong:

    “The surprise is that the Neolithic peoples of Europe and their Bronze Age successors are not closely related to the modern inhabitants... It is a further surprise that the Epipalaeolithic Natufian of Israel from whom the Neolithic realm was assumed to arise has a clear link to Sub-Saharan Africa.” (Brace et. al. (2006). The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form.
    Are you capable of properly interpreting this piece of data? Do I need to repost the Ricaut study which built on these findings of the "Sub Saharan"/Negroid farming populations who spread their knowledge of the land/farming around the World? I'm just curious as to how you think that Zidane resembles these ancient Cannanites. What biological basis (not ignorant perceptions of history based on silly racism) do you have for that claim. I'm very interested in knowing.

    Pelasgians and Indo-Europeans for that matter, had with the origin of the Phoenicians, who were obviously a Semitic speaking Levantine people.
    "Semitic" is a language and it further goes to demonstrate the limits of your "mental capacity" when you try to equate this language with a race of people. Do you know who else speaks "Semitic" and even are "Hebrews" from Israel/Canaan?



    These Bantu-Semitic speaking Hebrews migrated from Canaan (originally from Egypt) down the Arabian pennisula and back into Africa, as confirmed by their genetics. Oh and these unquestionably black Africans (Bantus) are mostly comprised of HAPOLOGROUP J (yet they look they do)!

    And the notion that Esarhaddon was some kind of Negro is funny (actually that's a very offensive lie).
    Ok let's see. Wide, flaring, nostrils (check), fat lips (check), beady hair (check)



    Kimbo


    Modern Assyrian..



    Yep what a match there

    Moreover, in your first post in this thread, you mentioned some "map above"; did you like, totally forget to post a map or where you referring to Zakar-Baal's map which details the spread of the Semitic languages?
    What other map posted on the first page showing a migration from tropical Africa into the Middle East could I possibly be referring to? Or did this most pivotal detail of the migrants coming right out of Africa (Nubia is indicated according to anthropological studies that have been presented which support these facts) just blow right past your ideological (lack of common sense because of a desire to prove something that "sound cool") laced train of thought?

    You know, if I had any common sense, I'd delete your intelligence insulting post
    Well I mean it wouldn't surprise if you had to stoop that low. You're clearly not a person who can accept historical reality due to your own modern prejudices.

    I may not have any common sense
    Clearly!
    Last edited by King; 2014-07-26 at 18:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    Ok let's see. Wide, flaring, nostrils (check), fat lips (check), beady hair (check)



    Kimbo

    No shame in looking like Kimbo, but are you being serious, or are you just trolling?

    You have selectively disregarded this bit (among many others, including dentition from Assyria), regarding Assyria's southern kin, the Babylonians, and the absence of "Black" features from the archaeological record of Mesopotamia:

    Henry Field, regarding Babylonian crania, from "Ancient and modern man in Southwestern Asia":




    You can speak all you want about noses and lips. Half of my family have large noses and lips and half of them do not, and yet genetically they are practically indistinguishable.
    I [Nebuchadnezzar] made a trench searching for the old foundation deposits ( . . . ), and I found the foundation of Naram-Sin, the king of Babylon, a remote ancestor, and I did not remove his inscription, but put my own inscription together with his inscription.
    The Pious King: Royal Patronage of Temples
    By Caroline Waerzeggers

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    I probably look not too far off from a Phoenician. Hooked nose, dark brown hair almost black, large oval shaped brown eyes, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tauromenion View Post
    I probably look not too far off from a Phoenician. Hooked nose, dark brown hair almost black, large oval shaped brown eyes, etc.
    They were clearly Meds and this guy is just trolling too hard.


    ----

    Also bro (talking to King here)... I hope you realize "dark skin" is not exclusive to "blacks". Here are Soqotri Arabians:

    Spoiler: 










    Dark, eh? : D Not "black" though in that they have nothing to do with lets say Niger-Congo populations but their Y DNA and mtDNA clearly demonstrates that they are not only an Arabian population but a pretty isolated and obscenely intact one (I would not be surprised if they come out a bit autosomally distinct from their Arabian peninsula brethren and present more "South West Asian") so they're some pretty A-rab Arabians, lol. Now, lets say they built some great civilization and created paintings of themselves- those paintings would showcase some pretty dark people, neh? Not "Black" people though. o.o


    I'm only adding this point because I've noticed that you're one of those "The depictions of them depicted 'dark toned' people so they must have been 'black'!" types. Seriously, mate. West Africa is not a bad place historically... Have you heard of the Mali Empire or Benin or the Ghana Empire or the Ife bronzes ? o.o

    You have your on history, go revel in it and with all due respect (and this is coming from a non-Middle Easterner) leave the Middle East the fuck alone.
    Last edited by Awale; 2014-07-26 at 19:45.

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    Phoenicians did settle in part of Sicily so for all I know I could have Phoenician ancestry. Frankly I have seen many phenotypes from there that I think are at least partially representative of the Phoenicians, who also would not have differed much at all from the original Jews.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    No shame in looking like Kimbo, but are you being serious
    What the Hell do you mean serious? The question should we posed on you two ("Ellias") are y'all simply not able to accept what you see as clearly the truth?

    You have selectively disregarded this bit (among many others, including dentition from Assyria), regarding Assyria's southern kin, the Babylonians, and the absence of "Black" features from the archaeological record of Mesopotamia:
    Firstly who presented evidence of black people not being in Mesopotamia? The Mesospotamians were a mixture of Dravidian (extremely black) and Bantu speakers from this migration out of Africa:




    Sickle Cell anemia perfectly correlates with this migration FROM Northeast Africa (hence the total absence in that region today)


    Cranial studies (phenotype/The only thing that will tell us what they looked like)

    "They were akin to the predynastic people of Egypt described by Dr. Foquet.." (Keith 1934, in Al-'Ubaid, pp. 216,240)


    "First there is the Eurafrican.. In ancient times, this type is found in Mesopotamia and Egypt and may be compared with the Ombe Capelle skull. It is possibly identical with men who lived in the high desert west of the Nile in paleolithic times.." (-Penniman, T.K. "A Note on the Inhabitants of Kish.." Excavations at Kish, 1923-33 Vol 4. pp 65-72)


    The ancient Egyptians (like everyone else in the ancient World prior to 2,50 BC) were black Africans:

    "..the Qarunian (Faiyum) early Neolithic crania (Henneberg et al. 1989; Midant-Reynes 2000), and the Nabta specimen from the Neolithic Nabta Playa site in the western desert of Egypt (Henneberg et al. 1980) - show, with regard to the great African biological diversity, similarities with some of the sub-Saharan middle Paleolithic and modern sub-Saharan specimens. This affinity pattern between ancient Egyptians and sub-Saharans has also been noticed by several other investigators.."
    --Ricaut and Walekens (2008) 'Cranial Discrete traits..' Human Biology, 80:5, pp. 535-564










    So we have "negroid" remains, sickle cell throughout the region, linguistic evidence confirming an ancient Bantu elements in the languages of the region (recent study cited) and a subsequent back migration (could a back migration of these black Africans into Africa explain the presence of hap R in modern day Cameroon reaching frequencies of just under 100%) into Africa (my take on the study), and now as we can see above we have wide nostril, fat lipped Gods and Goddess being worshiped along this SAME migration route.

    At this point it's not called "skepticism" it's just called being petty haters .

    You can speak all you want about noses and lips. Half of my family have large noses and lips and half of them do not, and yet genetically they are practically indistinguishable.
    Oh so now "Caucasoid" people have the "undesirable" black features that they have been fighting so desperately to disassociate themselves with . Y'all are so silly!



    Show me a "Caucasoid" match with these features. The nose is going to be the most entertaining feature to watch you try to explain. This is the Egyptian pharaoh that brought about Dynastic Egypt, and this is relevant to the fact that the studies above clearly state that the ancient Mesopotamians resembled these "negroid" Pre-Dynastic Egyptians.

    "Nutter (1958) noted affinities between the Badarian and Naqada samples, a feature that Strouhal (1971) attributed to their skulls possessing “Negroid” traits. Keita (1992), using craniometrics, discovered that the Badarian series is distinctly different from the later Egyptian series, a conclusion that is mostly confirmed here. Godde K. (2009) An Examination of Nubian and Egyptian biological distances: Support for biological diffusion or in situ development? Homo. 2009;60(5):389-404."

    "Badarians"=Pre-Dynastic Egyptians. They were found to be "negroid", so logically what does this imply about a population whom anthropologist say descended from them (Egypt is much older) and had almost identical biological affinities?
    Last edited by King; 2014-07-26 at 21:23.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    The Mesospotamians were a mixture of Dravidian (extremely black) and Bantu speakers from this migration out of Africa.
    OK. Have a good time discussing this topic with yourself.
    I [Nebuchadnezzar] made a trench searching for the old foundation deposits ( . . . ), and I found the foundation of Naram-Sin, the king of Babylon, a remote ancestor, and I did not remove his inscription, but put my own inscription together with his inscription.
    The Pious King: Royal Patronage of Temples
    By Caroline Waerzeggers

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    King, is there a reasonable explanation of what happened with all these supposed black Mesopotamians?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    OK. Have a good time discussing this topic with yourself.
    If you really have the truth on your side well then "refute" me cry baby! You know that you can't because my argument is solidly backed multiple lines of evidence. The statuary is something that I notice contemporary populations (the non black admixed albino/Caucus mountain descendants) in these regions where ancient civilization flourished NEVER like to show (or they only show a select few pieces that of art that don't indicate anything about the people, who they were or what they looked like). It's ironic that the noses (clearly always being wide) are broke off even OUTSIDE OF EGYPT! It's like white Americans claiming the Olmec civilizations...The problem with yall is that y'all don't know nor want to accept how y'all (with your "pretty" off white skin) came into existence....it has NOTHING to do with adaption to the environment.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zert View Post
    King, is there a reasonable explanation of what happened with all these supposed black Mesopotamians?
    LOL Yeah Y'ALL coming out of the mountains/caves of the Caucus! This map represents the temporary curse of the Earth....The spreading of you all!



    ""In this context it is likely that Bronze Age events may have facilitated the southward diffusion of populations carrying northern and central European biological elements and may have contributed to some degree of admixture between northern and central Europeans and Anatolians, and on a larger scale, between northeastern Mediterraneans and Anatolians. Even if we do not know which populations were involved, historical and archaeological data suggest, for instance, the 2nd millennium B.C. Minoan and later Mycenaean occupation of Anatolian coast, the arrival in Anatolia in the early 1st millennium B.C. of the Phrygians coming from Thrace, and later the arrival of settlers from Macedonia in Pisidia and in the Sagalassos territory (under Seleucid rule). The coming of the Dorians from Northern Greece and central Europe (the Dorians are claimed to be one of the main groups at the origin of the ancient Greeks) may have also brought northern and central European biological elements into southern populations. Indeed, the Dorians may have migrated southward to the Peloponnese, across the southern Aegean and Create, and later reached Asia Minor."
    F. X. Ricaut, M. Waelkens. (2008). Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzantine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements Human Biology - Volume 80, Number 5, October 2008, pp. 535-564


    Funny how they call you Europeans even though you were the last population to migrate Westward into Europe.
    Last edited by King; 2014-07-26 at 21:08.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    If you really have the truth on your side well then "refute" me cry baby! You know that you can't because my argument is solidly backed multiple lines of evidence. The statuary is something that I notice contemporary populations (the non black admixed albino/Caucus mountain descendants) in these regions where ancient civilization flourished NEVER like to show (or they only show a select few pieces that of art that don't indicate anything about the people, who they were or what they looked like). It's ironic that the noses (clearly always being wide) are broke off even OUTSIDE OF EGYPT! It's like white Americans claiming the Olmec civilizations...The problem with yall is that y'all don't know nor want to accept how y'all (with your "pretty" off white skin) came into existence....it has NOTHING to do with adaption to the environment.

    - - - Updated - - -



    LOL Yeah Y'ALL coming out of the mountains/caves of the Caucus!
    The thing is, they can't talk about the statuary because their inferior language doesn't permit them to do so. I suggest you pick up a Bantu language for effective communication of the truth. I don't think ebonics is fully Bantu.

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