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Thread: Mohammed and Charlemagne Revisited: The history of a controversy2381 days old

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager View Post
    And your unwashed ancestors from the North played a key part in that slump.
    Whatever. Roman civilization is overrated.
    It was the friction of christianity and paganism that made western europe culturally weak for awhile.

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  3. #22
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    Peace through power Azvarohi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue3000 View Post
    It was the friction of christianity and paganism that made western europe culturally weak for awhile.
    Wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azvarohi View Post
    Wrong.
    My interpretion and opinion.

    The vikings, who attacked christian targets and the bloody christian subjugation of the pagan saxons are among others strong proves of this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue3000 View Post
    Whatever. Roman civilization is overrated.
    It was the friction of christianity and paganism that made western europe culturally weak for awhile.
    It was your thuggish ancestors who caused nearly all the cultural and economic decline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager View Post
    It was your thuggish ancestors who caused nearly all the cultural and economic decline.
    Believe that if you want to. I am not going to discuss any more with you on this subject.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simi View Post
    I haven't read it yet, nor have I read the original by Pirenne. So I'll remain neutral about the book. But I think it's refreshing with a historical perpective that's not Islamo-Arabophile in nature.

    What do you think about the thesis?
    I find it interesting but I took whatever he wrote for granted actually, as I'm not really knowledgeable about the subject.

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    I think it was ultimately positive for western Europe culturally, the Muslim world cutting off the east from the west probably invigorated migration period art and thought to play a more dominant role in the middle ages. Ancient Greece and Rome were brilliant, but they weren't wholly European culturally in the sense that say, the Normans or Medieval England or France was

    here's the book of Kells for example, no real eastern influence apart from being based in Christianity, but its quite brilliant isn't it?





    or Norse art



    Last edited by ghostface; 2013-01-22 at 04:17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager View Post
    It was your thuggish ancestors who caused nearly all the cultural and economic decline.
    Yet, it is the hard work and intellectual labour of the north European people that drives and pushes technology to its limits. Yet another vacation day and welfare cheque for the southerners.

    You also wouldn't be able to post to a message board if it wasn't for north European innovation and development in the computer science and technology fields. Germans and Scandinavians being major if not the primary contributors.
    Last edited by Radagast; 2013-01-22 at 04:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tchekitchek View Post
    I find it interesting but I took whatever he wrote for granted actually, as I'm not really knowledgeable about the subject.
    Is what Dr. Bill Warner talks about in this lecture similar to what Henri Pirenne wrote about?



    Quote Originally Posted by voyager View Post
    It was your thuggish ancestors who caused nearly all the cultural and economic decline.
    Nope, watch the lecture above.
    Last edited by NixYO; 2016-08-06 at 02:29.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simi View Post
    I'm looking forward to read this book.
    Have you read it since? If so, what are his conclusions and the general idea, or gist of his arguments, so to say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simi View Post
    Scott has included tons of archaeological data in the book to support his thesis that the fall of the classical civilization was because of the Islamic caliphates and not barbarian invasions.
    I don't know about which group was most responsible. I think it's safe to say that neither helped, however, while barbarian Germanic tribes sort of took over the Roman Empire, they eventually became integrated quite well, even converting to Christianity, language shifting and so on. The Muslims on the other hand (or "Arabs"), imposed Islamic law and the Arabic language and so on, most notably in Spain, but also elsewhere (like Sicily and Malta). And the biggest damage to classical civilization was obviously the Turkic conquest of the Byzantine Empire and the fall of Constantinople. Whatever beefs the Romans and Germanics/Celts ever had, and Iberia becoming a Caliphate, none of it can compare to Greece falling under Turko-Islamic rule.

    Also, important to keep in mind, is that modern Germanic and Slavic countries (as well as the remaining Celtic folks), have adopted various aspects of classical civilization, most notably law but also architecture and so on. The Islamic world hasn't really preserved much from Greece and Rome.
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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