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Thread: What Baltic language is closer to Russian? 🇱🇻 🇱🇹 🇷🇺2467 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugevit View Post
    This is a good research on phonetic similarities between Slavic and Baltic languages done by a linguist from Novosibirsk. He wrote a monograph publishing numerous articles on phonetic similarities between different languages. He counted phonemes occurring in literary languages comparing phonetic similarities on the basis of phonemes frequencies. But spoken and written languages particular old Russian are quite different.
    Is that study the one few posts above?

    If so, it would be interesting if instead of "summa glasnih" (count of vowels), they could somehow make a distinction between long and short vowels and dipthongs. Somehow to not make a big deal out of them, but account for having those differences. They do make language sound different. I think some Slavic languages still have some long vowels - Czech maybe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    Is that study the one few posts above?

    If so, it would be interesting if instead of "summa glasnih" (count of vowels), they could somehow make a distinction between long and short vowels and dipthongs. Somehow to not make a big deal out of them, but account for having those differences. They do make language sound different. I think some Slavic languages still have some long vowels - Czech maybe?
    Both wovels and consonants were used in comparison. Balto-Slavic languages have around 40 phonemes if I am not mistaken. The comparison was made using 9-10 phonemes. The phonemes were used are featured on page 61 : http://epa.oszk.hu/01500/01521/00014...12_054-067.pdf


    Some of author's published articles on the subject:


    Baltic languages:**http://epa.oszk.hu/01500/01521/00014...12_054-067.pdf
    Polish language :*http://hss.fullerton.edu/linguistics...amb-Polish.pdf
    Roman languages :*http://hss.fullerton.edu/linguistics...mb-Spanish.pdf
    German and English :*http://hss.fullerton.edu/linguistics...Germ=Poets.pdf
    Turkic languages :*http://lib.nsu.ru:8080/xmlui/bitstre...pdf?sequence=1
    Finno-Ugric languages :*http://epa.oszk.hu/01500/01521/00011...udies_0311.pdf
    Basque language:*http://ucrel.lancs.ac.uk/publication..._abstract2.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugevit View Post
    Both wovels and consonants were used in comparison.
    Yeah, I checked that page - eight categories for consonants and one category for vowels (count of vowels).
    Which means that variance in consonants is 8 times more important for phonetics than variance in vowels (actually only variance in vowels count is considered) in this research.
    Instead they could have made more categories for vowels. And if they took into account dipthongs and long vowels Latvian would be closest to Lithuanian, I can bet on that

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    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    Yeah, I checked that page - eight categories for consonants and one category for vowels (count of vowels).
    Which means that variance in consonants is 8 times more important for phonetics than variance in vowels (actually only variance in vowels count is considered) in this research.
    Instead they could have made more categories for vowels. And if they took into account dipthongs and long vowels Latvian would be closest to Lithuanian, I can bet on that
    In terms of dipthongs Lithuanian maybe more similar to Latvian. But a 'sound picture' of the language is not just about dipthongs and long vowels. There are many Lithuanians settled in UK. Often, Lithuanian language is mixed up with Slavic and some Lithuanians get upset which I can understand.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Title of the article is Borrowings from Lithuanian: Structure, Semantics, Functioning.

    As per the article the *dictionary on Baltisms in Slavic languages authored by Lithuanian philologist Jūratė Laučiūtė published in 1982. Ukrainian language has 60 loanwords, Russian - 200 , Polish – 400 and Belarusian language has over 550 loanwords.The dictionary of dialects of north-western Belarus consisting of 5 volumes published in the 80s accounts for 1,200-1,300 Baltic loanwords in the Belarusian language.

    Source: http://www.biblioteka.vpu.lt/zmogusi...ionok38-42.pdf
    Last edited by Rugevit; 2015-12-27 at 13:22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugevit View Post
    In terms of dipthongs Lithuanian maybe more similar to Latvian. But a 'sound picture' of the language is not just about dipthongs and long vowels. There are many Lithuanians settled in UK. Often, Lithuanian language is mixed up with Slavic and some Lithuanians get upset which I can understand.
    I agree - sound picture is a mixture of vowels and consonants. Hence I would like to have a study giving both those things proper recognition.
    Also to be fair - Lithuanians has less* long vowels than Latvian (and even those they have are shorter), so it might change less for them than for Latvians in terms of this study. To me Lithuanian (Aukštaitian) English sounds more East Slavic English than say Latvian or North Polish English.

    less long vowels* - for example, Lithuanians have original Balto-Slavic an, en, in, nasal sounds, where Latvians use for example 'uo' or 'ī'.
    Laimingai - laimīgi
    Ranka - roka (ruoka)

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    parastais

    Can you find good examples of spoken Latgalian? My exposure to Latgalian is in the movie Cilvēka bērns and several Latgalian songs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugevit View Post
    parastais

    Can you find good examples of spoken Latgalian? My exposure to Latgalian is in the movie Cilvēka bērns and several Latgalian songs.
    Difficult to find good examples. They are of different levels of Russification. Songs and movie should be of incapsulated "literary" or "old" Latgalian that is not that full with modern Russicisms. I will check if I can find anything on youtube.

    In general Latgalian phonetics is (and also was) closer to Lithuanian than standard Latvian phonetics, they are like two languages in this regard. Possibly as a result of assimilation of Krivichi (if Sedov is correct) or Lithuanian/Polish immigrants when Latgale was part of Commonwealth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    In general Latgalian phonetics is (and also was) closer to Lithuanian than standard Latvian phonetics, they are like two languages in this regard. Possibly as a result of assimilation of Krivichi (if Sedov is correct) or Lithuanian/Polish immigrants when Latgale was part of Commonwealth.
    I was always under opinion than east Lithuanians (Dzukians) and Latgalians can understand each other better than Lithuanians and Latvians in general. That's not has to do with russification/polonisation of the regions. Both regions have historic and geographic ties. I also read somewhere that some Latgalians consider their dialect (language) to be truely Latvian language, while standard Latvian they call it Baltic dialect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugevit View Post
    I also read somewhere that some Latgalians consider their dialect (language) to be truely Latvian language, while standard Latvian they call it Baltic dialect.
    I used think so too, but then I mediated on issue and learned some sound laws.

    Basically, I explain it with vilcāns example.
    There is a set of regular sound correspondences Latvian and Latgalian.
    a - o (gads - gods)
    ā - uo (ābols - uobuļš)
    e - a (ezers - azars)
    uo - ū (ruoka - rūka)
    ē - ā (ēdu - ādu)

    Vilcēns - Vilcāns.
    There is also regular sound law from proto-East-Baltic to Latvian. k before i/e would change into c.
    Saku - sacīt (Latvian "I say" - "to say" - see how before u k remains, and before ī it became c)
    Kirvis - cirvis (Lithuanin "axe" - Latvian "axe" - see before i, became c)
    Kelmas - celms (Lithuanian "stump" - Latvian "stump" - before 'e' k becomes c)

    So, Lithuanian vilkenas became in modern Latvian vilcēns (because before e it became c) and only then it became Latgalian vilcāns (ē - ā sound correspondence).

    This k-c thing should be pretty recent. Latvian Cēsis in Polish is https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kie%C5%9B

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    Lithuanians sing in Latgalian.








    Ūsi, ūsi, kod lopõsi? Voi, voi... kod lopõsi?
    Vysi kūceni nūlopova. Voi, voi... nūlopova.
    Ūseitś vīńś'i nalopova. Voi, voi... nalopova.
    Ūseitīś'i tod lopova. Voi voi... tod lapova,
    Kod atskrę̄ja laksteigola. Voi, voi... laksteigola.
    Laksteigola krūni kola. Voi, voi ... krūni kola.
    Munā rūžu dõrzeńā'i. Voi, Voi... dõrzeńā'i.
    Ni mań mīga, ni mań dorba. Voi, voi... ni mań dorba
    Laksteigolys jõsaklousa. Voi, voi... jõsaklousa.

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