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Thread: Haplogroup E1a1438 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbbrainer View Post
    I don't know about the origins per se but at least in my haplogroup it is not common at all for it to be present in SSA, it is common in North Africans and Southern Europeans. There was a much interesting debate concerning my maternal haplo in anthroscape according to which there was a recent study which yielded a complete different story about the origin, and it is caucasoid in that version contrary to other studies. That debate lasted for a long time. It is better to talk about where it is more present even more so when the physical traits of possible groups which inhabit a region of origin do not look like the majority of the ascendants of the individual in question even more when the ones who do exhibit a higher frequency for the haplogroup. IMHO.
    You're Y-DNA isn't related to E1a but it's more related to mine, so he's clearly caucasoid, a subclade of E1b1b.
    And about your Mt-DNA i don't know, the major L subclade in Northafrica is L3k and it's caucasoid it's found only in North africa.
    Last edited by Berber_Warrior; 2014-02-26 at 00:23.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berber_Warrior View Post
    Y-dna E is originated in East Africa, E1a as basal Haplogroup is found only in Northwest Africa. It's not found among SSA, the subclades found in West Africa is E1a1a3 the major among Malians, and Senegambians, and it's found only among hartanis in Northafrica. E2 and E1b1a are specific to SSA people . By SSA, I mean all african except northern and horners.
    Can you post a source for this?

    E-M33 is NOT very common anywhere in North Africa, and E-M44 has not been found:


    Source:https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42082352/Berber.pdf

    Based on this map it looks like the haplogroups was spread like this: Sahelian West Africans> North Africans > Jews > Eastern Europeans:


    Quote Originally Posted by Berber_Warrior View Post
    You're Y-DNA isn't related to E1a but it's more related to mine, so he's clearly caucasoid, a subclade of E1b1b.
    Basal E1b1b (E-M215, E-M35, E-M78 etc..) is East African in origin and stems back to time that likely predates West Eurasian Y-DNA J/T and mtDNA M/N there.



    Quote Originally Posted by dbbrainer View Post
    I don't know about the origins per se but at least in my haplogroup it is not common at all for it to be present in SSA, it is common in North Africans and Southern Europeans
    What does this have to do with the discussion?

    As for your mtDNA, L3e1e is typical black African, "Negroid", Niger-Kordofanian mtDNA... It's distribution is widespread in Sub-Saharan, black, Niger-Kordofanian speaking West, Central and Southern Africa.... DbBrainer, please just get over it.

    http://ethiohelix.blogspot.com/2014/...rn-africa.html

    And about your Mt-DNA i don't know, the major L subclade in Northafrica is L3k and it's caucasoid it's found only in North africa.
    L3k and L3e stem from L3e'i'k'x, which originated in the East Africa among East Africans. L3e and L3k are found in North Africa. The L3e found in North Africa is L3e5 and L3e1. L3k is OLD in North Africa and therefore, PRECEEDED "race". L3e is young and was brought there by Negroid, Sub-Saharans pretty recently:



    Source:
    http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/conten...45.short?rss=1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berber_Warrior View Post
    Y-dna E is originated in East Africa, E1a as basal Haplogroup is found only in Northwest Africa, and it's not found among SSA, the subclades found in West Africa is E1a1a3 the major among Malians, and Senegambians, and it's found only among hartanis in Northafrica. E2 and E1b1a are specific to SSA people . By SSA, I mean all african except northern and horners.
    But the so-called Horn of Africa IS in Sub-Saharan Africa. Please buy an atlas or an encyclopedia because geography isn't your strong suit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgbk87 View Post
    Can you post a source for this?

    E-M33 is NOT very common anywhere in North Africa, and E-M44 has not been found:


    Source:https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42082352/Berber.pdf

    Based on this map it looks like the haplogroups was spread like this: Sahelian West Africans> North Africans > Jews > Eastern Europeans:




    Basal E1b1b (E-M215, E-M35, E-M78 etc..) is East African in origin and stems back to time that likely predates West Eurasian Y-DNA J/T and mtDNA M/N there.





    What does this have to do with the discussion?

    As for your mtDNA, L3e1e is typical black African, "Negroid", Niger-Kordofanian mtDNA... It's distribution is widespread in Sub-Saharan, black, Niger-Kordofanian speaking West, Central and Southern Africa.... DbBrainer, please just get over it.

    http://ethiohelix.blogspot.com/2014/...rn-africa.html



    L3k and L3e stem from L3e'i'k'x, which originated in the East Africa among East Africans. L3e and L3k are found in North Africa. The L3e found in North Africa is L3e5 and L3e1. L3k is OLD in North Africa and therefore, PRECEEDED "race". L3e is young and was brought there by Negroid, Sub-Saharans pretty recently:



    Source:
    http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/conten...45.short?rss=1

    I mentioned it just in passing because there are debates concerning the origins of haplogroups, specially both of mine. My passions concerning this topic are null so I just provide the information and let you guys do the interpreting knowing that there is ample interpretation. Thus, why whould I have to get over anything? We have information that my mtDNA has been found in Guanche females and also in North Africa, the origin of the woman in question is insignificant when as far as back as there is photographic evidence and paper trail all maternal lineages come from Canarias and she does only look Canarian. Furthermore, we have recently seen seen how a Spaniard here has a Siberian haplogroup, Egyptians and some Horners, albeit at insignificant amounts, have my Y Dna .... does that have anything to do with something that would warrant an implication in their (or my identity)? No. Point is, you seem to be more passionate to it than me. What would I gain? What would I lose? Nothing in any case.

    I'll give you the link: Good Luck following all the information without being skewed by either party's interpretation of the data.

    http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/5238756/1/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Afura View Post
    But the so-called Horn of Africa IS in Sub-Saharan Africa. Please buy an atlas or an encyclopedia because geography isn't your strong suit.
    Yeah I know this but I tend to differenciate them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pgbk87 View Post
    E-M33 is NOT very common anywhere in North Africa, and E-M44 has not been found:
    We're talking about Basal E1a= E-M33, like for E-V13, is very common outside NAfrica but it's originated in NorthEastern Africa, but it's NOT very common in North Africa.
    E1a was found among native canarians (3.33%), if E1a is a West African haplogroups, WHY we did not found his west african brother E1b1a among precolonial guanches ? So you're hypothesis is void.
    The Subclade found in Mali is E1a1a3, in Europe and NAfrica there are the basal E1a.
    Source:https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42082352/Berber.pdf

    Based on this map it looks like the haplogroups was spread like this: Sahelian West Africans> North Africans > Jews > Eastern Europeans:
    Nah, it's more Northafrica > West Africa
    Northafrica >*Jews > Europe


    Basal E1b1b (E-M215, E-M35, E-M78 etc..) is East African in origin and stems back to time that likely predates West Eurasian Y-DNA J/T and mtDNA M/N there.
    Basal E1b1b E-M78 is originated in East Africa I agree, my subclade is Northafrican caucasoid it's found in Northwestern Africa E-M81, the haplgroup of the guy "E1b1b1b2a" is more related to mine than to E1a.


    What does this have to do with the discussion?
    He asks infos about his haplogroups.


    L3k and L3e stem from L3e'i'k'x, which originated in the East Africa among East Africans. L3e and L3k are found in North Africa. The L3e found in North Africa is L3e5 and L3e1. L3k is OLD in North Africa and therefore, PRECEEDED "race". L3e is young and was brought there by Negroid, Sub-Saharans pretty recently:

    I agree with this, L3k is the older in Northwestern Africa, another thing is L haplogroup is not the more common in Northafrica, he goes from 1.36% in Morocco Jews, 3.2% in Moroccan Berbers, to 40% In some Regions "Haratins".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berber_Warrior View Post
    We're talking about Basal E1a= E-M33, like for E-V13, is very common outside NAfrica but it's originated in NorthEastern Africa, but it's NOT very common in North Africa.
    E1a was found among native canarians (3.33%), if E1a is a West African haplogroups, WHY we did not found his west african brother E1b1a among precolonial guanches ? So you're hypothesis is void.
    The Subclade found in Mali is E1a1a3, in Europe and NAfrica there are the basal E1a.
    Source:https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42082352/Berber.pdf



    Nah, it's more Northafrica > West Africa
    Northafrica >*Jews > Europe




    Basal E1b1b E-M78 is originated in East Africa I agree, my subclade is Northafrican caucasoid it's found in Northwestern Africa E-M81, the haplgroup of the guy "E1b1b1b2a" is more related to mine than to E1a.




    He asks infos about his haplogroups.




    I agree with this, L3k is the older in Northwestern Africa, another thing is L haplogroup is not the more common in Northafrica, he goes from 1.36% in Morocco Jews, 3.2% in Moroccan Berbers, to 40% In some Regions "Haratins".
    Yh, besides haplogroup L originates in East Africa.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macro-haplogroup_L_(mtDNA)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berber_Warrior View Post
    We're talking about Basal E1a= E-M33, like for E-V13, is very common outside NAfrica but it's originated in NorthEastern Africa, but it's NOT very common in North Africa.
    E1a was found among native canarians (3.33%), if E1a is a West African haplogroups, WHY we did not found his west african brother E1b1a among precolonial guanches?
    Because E1b1a1 is originally and East African Y-DNA. Prior to the originally East African E-V38, the major Y-DNAs in West Africa were:

    A00, A0-P305, A1a-M31, B-M236, B-M146, B-M152, DE*, E-M96*, E-M40, E-M33, E-M44, E-M75, E-M98*.

    Sources:
    http://www.cell.com/AJHG/retrieve/pii/S0002929711001649
    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0049170
    http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/7/124
    http://ethiohelix.blogspot.com/2012/...rn-africa.html
    http://ethiohelix.blogspot.com/2013/...s-on-east.html

    The Subclade found in Mali is E1a1a3, in Europe and NAfrica there are the basal E1a.
    Source:https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42082352/Berber.pdf
    Where are you reading that in Mali the Y-DNA is only E1a1a3? It just says E-M33... Both E-M33 and E-M44 have been found in Mali, Guinea-Bissau and northern Cameroon.

    Nah, it's more Northafrica > West Africa
    Northafrica >*Jews > Europe
    Yes, in a parallel universe...

    Basal E1b1b E-M78 is originated in East Africa I agree, my subclade is Northafrican caucasoid it's found in Northwestern Africa E-M81, the haplgroup of the guy "E1b1b1b2a" is more related to mine than to E1a.
    Haplogroups don't have "races" tied to them. Especially not E1b1b. I think it's pretty obvious that E1b1b1b2a is a downstream mutation of E-M81.

    I agree with this, L3k is the older in Northwestern Africa, another thing is L haplogroup is not the more common in Northafrica, he goes from 1.36% in Morocco Jews, 3.2% in Moroccan Berbers, to 40% In some Regions "Haratins".
    Where are you getting that 3.2% for Moroccan Berbers? It's usually 20-33% for North Africans...

    Haplogroup L is quite common in North Africa:


    It also fits in well with the Eurogenes K36 Admixture Run:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=0
    Last edited by pgbk87; 2014-02-26 at 22:24.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajuran View Post
    Yh, besides haplogroup L originates in East Africa.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macro-haplogroup_L_(mtDNA)
    Yeah L and E are east africans


    Quote Originally Posted by pgbk87 View Post
    Where are you getting that 3.2% for Moroccan Berbers? It's usually 20-33% for North Africans...

    Haplogroup L is quite common in North Africa:


    It also fits in well with the Eurogenes K36 Admixture Run:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=0
    Turchi et al(2009)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macro-haplogroup_L_(mtDNA)

    lmao in your picture it's goes from 20 to 30% and I m sure you're using behar, the jews unificator

    Another thing north african are berbers, but by Berbers I (we) mean non mixed ones. you're studies include Tuaregs and Hartanis as natives .
    Your table seams spurious I can also do it.
    Last edited by Berber_Warrior; 2014-02-26 at 23:02.

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    At least this debate is happening. Let's keep it going .. I'll make a different thread to not hijack this one on the info which has to do with the article posted and debated in the anthroscape thread I linked here.

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