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Thread: The ancient Egyptian/Nile Valley Origins of Bantu Speakers2056 days old

  1. #11
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    Egyptians where nilo-saharan, saharan and horner in origin, so far the mtdnas i've seen for ancietn egyptianis support this theory. Also the evidence points to the opposite that a possible source for Egyptians is folks going from west africa to the east, atleast in a very small scale genetically. CAmeroon is definetly the motherland of everything, its where the oldest y-dna is found, and linguistically you can clearly tell cameroon and southeast nigeria are the places with proto-bantu languages.... ALso the y-dna that chracterizes the bantu expansion E is not as common in ancietn or modern egyptians as it is in CAmeroon. Egypt is way more nilo-saharan, their black-african component is defintely nilo-saharan. Bantu's originated in west africa for sure.... Now in modern day Congo,Gabon,Angola there are some ethnic groups with an eastern ethnogensesis origin but this is only part of their ancestry, adn most usualyl its the non-bantu ancestry. So for example in cameroon there are some sudanid groups that defintely score some high although not predominant nilo-saharan scores., but funny enough the people with the most east african admixture are NOT bantu speakers.

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Lemba For This Useful Post:

    pgbk87 (2013-12-31), TerryCarr (2014-01-01)

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    Senenmut


    "The most renown architect of all time."




    compare...


    Senenmut claims to be the chief architect of Hatshepsut's works at Deir el-Bahri.[5] Senenmut's masterpiece building project was the Mortuary Temple complex of Hatshepsut at Deir el-Bahri. It was designed and implemented by Senenmut on a site on the West Bank of the Nile close to the entrance to the Valley of the Kings. The focal point was the Djeser-Djeseru or "the Sublime of the Sublimes" mortuary temple-('Holy (of) Holiests'), a colonnaded structure of perfect harmony built nearly one thousand years before the Parthenon. Djeser-Djeseru sits atop a series of terraces that once were graced with gardens. It is built into a cliff face that rises sharply above it. Djeser-Djeseru and the other buildings of the Deir el-Bahri complex are considered to be among the great buildings of the ancient world. The building complex design is thought to be derived from the temple of Neb-hepet-Re Mentuhotep built nearly 500 years earlier at Deir-el-Bahri near Thebes.[6] Senenmut's importance at the royal court under Hatshepsut is unquestionable:

    "he was able to lay immediate claim to prime construction sites at Sheikh Abd el Qurna and Deir el Bahri itself for the excavation of his tomb chapel and burial chamber."[7]

    Senenmut's Theban Tomb 71 was started late in Year 7, "shortly after Hatshepsut's accession, the death of Hatnofer, and Hatnofer's internment with the exhumed remains of several family members", while the "excavation on the chapel seems to have continued until after Year 7" of the female pharaoh's reign.[8] Senenmut's tomb appears to have enjoyed Hatshepsut's favour and "his portrayal in the Punt reliefs certainly postdates Year 9" of Hatshepsut.[9]

    The earliest known star map in Egypt is found as a main part of a decor in the Tomb of Senemut. The astronomical ceiling Astronomical ceiling of Senemut Tomb in Senenmut’s tomb (TT 353) is divided into two sections representing the northern and the southern skies. This indicates other dimension of his career, suggesting that he was an ancient astronomer as well.
    His work


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    This ancient "Bantu" homeland/northern expansion on the Egypto-Nubian Nile would also explain the prevalence of "severe" (Benin) sickle cell in Old Kingdom Egyptian mummies. It would also explain why Benin (West African) sickle cell is found in noticeable frequencies along the western coast of the Arabian peninsula directly across the Red Sea of from the proposed homeland region.

    We conducted a molecular investigation of the presence of sicklemia in six predynastic Egyptian mummies (about 3200 BC) from the Anthropological and Ethnographic Museum of Turin. Previous studies of these remains showed the presence of severe anemia, while histological preparations of mummified tissues revealed hemolytic disorders.”
    - Marin et. al. 1999, Use of the Amplification Refractory Mutation System (ARMS) in the Study of HbS in Predynastic Egyptian Remains.”


    Now place the highest frequencies (suggested as the homeland because of the common inferences associated with modern frequencies) shown in the map below in the same area of the Bantu Homeland/Expansion and reverse the arrows (Egypto-Nubia). Also notice how the Benin Sickle Cell is seen in areas that are documented have had heavy involvement with the ancient Egyptians.




    Correlates also with the distribution of E1b1a across the Mediterranean and Arabian Peninsula.



    This would also explain how E1b1a was found in ancient Israel dating back to over 2,000 years ago.

    The History of African Gene Flow into Southern Europeans,
    Levantines, and Jews

    Previous genetic studies have suggested a history of sub-Saharan African gene flow into some West Eurasian populations after the initial dispersal out of Africa that occurred at least 45,000 years ago. However, there has been no accurate characterization of the proportion of mixture, or of its date. We analyze genome-wide polymorphism data from about 40 West Eurasian groups to show that almost all Southern Europeans have inherited 1%-3% African ancestry with an average mixture date of around 55 generations ago, consistent with North African gene flow at the end of the Roman Empire and subsequent Arab migrations. Levantine groups harbor 4%-15% African ancestry with an average mixture date of about 32 generations ago, consistent with close political, economic, and cultural links with Egypt in the late middle ages. We also detect 3%-5% sub-Saharan African ancestry in all eight of the diverse Jewish populations that we analyzed. For the Jewish admixture, we obtain an average estimated date of about 72 generations. This may reflect descent of these groups from a common ancestral population that already had some African ancestry prior to the Jewish Diasporas....We estimate that the average date of the mixture of 72 generations (~2,000 years assuming 29 years per generation [30]) is older than that in Southern Europeans or other Levantines. The point estimates over all 8 populations are between 1,600–3,400 years ago, but with largely overlapping confidence intervals. It is intriguing that the Mizrahi Irani and Iraqi Jews—who are thought to descend at least in part from Jews who were exiled to Babylon about 2,600 years ago [39], [40]—share the signal of African admixture.
    More on those "exiled" Jews.

    The Lemba

    As of today these Southern African "Bantu" speakers are the most genetically "Jewish" people on Earth (at least of those of us who have been tested).





    Here is another African account of African/World history by Akan scholar Dr. Nana Banchie Darkwah. The Akan (Ghana, West Africa) also proclaim to be the Israelites (really just rebellious religious ancient Egyptian exiles).

    The main points of his book are:

    • Americans and Europeans assume that the Bible is about them, but the Bible is about my ancient ancestors and me…..Alex Darkwah
    • Modern-day Jews see the Bible as a record of their history because the King James Bible is centered on the history of Israel.
    • The Jewish people of Europe and America still carry African Tribal names. They carry the names of their ancestors who were Africans.
    • Statistically, the Lemba people from Southeast Africa are more Jewish than European Jews. In a particular Lemba Clan known as the Buba Clan, 53 percent of the males carry the unique DNA signature of Jewish priests. Males form the Lemba Tribe carry a higher incidence of the Jewish priestly DNA signature than the European and American Jewish population.
    • When the police have the fingerprints of a wanted man, they know the man whose prints match. The same thing can be said here.
    • The early Roman Catholic Church portrayed Jesus and his mother in the original Black images of the Jewish people at that time--The Black Madonna. What African tribe were they from?
    • The time period of the early Catholic Church is closer to the Jews leaving Africa and going to Europe than the Renaissance Painters who painted Jesus White.
    • What Europe did not count on was that Africans would still know their past.


    Darkwah states that ancient Egypt was geographically in Africa and that so called European experts do not know the Ancient Egyptian story because they are not familiar with African tribal names. They do not have the linguistic and cultural backgrounds to identify Egyptian names and have simply transposed the African names of people and places in Ancient Egyptian history into European languages to make it possible for them to claim expertise. Darkwah traces the ancient past of African tribes from the Middle East through Ancient Egypt to inner Africa. He reveals the African tribe that historians gave the fictitious names the Sumerians, Akkadians, and the African Tribes that were the Ancient Egyptians.

    Africans are the indigenous Native Hebrews (Jews). The greatest secret of Africa has never been told, and Christian Europe has been seeking to conceal for the past two thousand years is the African origin of the concepts, doctrines, sacramental practices of religion, and the documents that became the foundations of Christianity in Europe. Did you know that the names of Abraham, Isaac, Esau, and Jacob were all derived from African tribal words and names? Did you know that the earliest “Hebrew” name for God, Adonai, was derived from an African tribal word? Did you know that other name of God, Yahweh, was derived from an African tribal God? ... Did you know that the names of the authors of the Old Testament are not “Hebrew” or “Jewish” names, but transposed African tribal names? Christian Europe has never known these because it has never known the African linguistic and cultural side of the biblical story.

    The indigenous African tribal name of the most popular Ancient Egyptian king the west was Tutu Ankoma—not Tutankhamun. Not only do we know the indigenous African tribal name of this Ancient Egyptian king, but we also know where the modern dynasty of his ancient dynasty is today. We know in Africa that the Ancient Egyptian king who built the middle pyramid in Giza was called Akufu and not Khufu as the "experts" have told us. We also know that his two sons completed the procession of pyramids and placed a lion in the front of the procession. These sons were Dade Afre and not Djedefra as the experts transposed this name; and his brother was Ochere Afre and not Chephren as the experts have told us. The modern dynasty of these ancient kings is the Akuapem Dynasty that can be found today in the Eastern Region of Ghana. Conservatives, liberals, and all in between can go to check these people out and verify the royal names among these people.

    The book is about the Africans who wrote the Bible as well as Ancient Egypt. It is the untold story of the African tribes that were the Ancient Egyptians. It is the untold story of the people from these African tribes that left Ancient Egypt for it to become the biblical Exodus. It is about the untold story of these people that later went to Europe to become the Jews and Hebrews. It is about untold story of the Africans who actually wrote the documents of the Bible before Afrim (Jewish) scholars translated these documents for the Greeks in Ancient Egypt and claimed that their people in Israel wrote those documents.

    We in Africa even know the indigenous African tribal name of the people of the Exodus before they went to Europe to become the Jews and Hebrews. A review of a DNA study of Jewish people African tribes discovered one of the African tribes from which some of the people of the Exodus originated. Check it out in the New York Times of May 9, 1999. What does this prove? It proves the Ancient Egyptian and biblical stories were all Black people’s stories.

    The Ancient Egyptians were Black people and their modern descendants are alive and well in Africa. Real evidence of the modern descendants of the Ancient Egyptians in the tribes of Africa and the language and culture these people left behind in Ancient Egypt is the most powerful evidence there is about the Black racial origin of the Ancient Egyptians.

    In the 1960's and 1970's there were Jewish scholars who were secretly traveling around Africa researching African Tribes to find out from which tribe they belonged. They studied the Akan Religion of the Asante people to find out the similarities between Judaism and Christianity. The word Israel was derived from an African Tribal meaning. Most "Jewish" people still carry their African Tribal names of origin.

    The Sinai peninsula is clearly in Africa and is where the Israelites claim to receive their oral and written law. Geologically speaking all of the adjacent Arabian peninsula clear up to Syria is part of the African continent. The Great Rift Valley extends from Mozambique to Syria. The continental drift of tectonics shows the Arabian plate breaking off from the continent and colliding into the Asian plate to create the mountain ranges of Turkey and Armenia (University of Moscow).
    Use your mind and it makes total sense.

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    Darkwah unlike the other East/Central African historical sources gives the West African vantage point (mostly Akan) of the migration from ancient Egypt. In his descritpion of these historical events the main ethnic groups focused on are the Akan, Ibo, Yoruba, Hausa, Ewe and Ga-Adangme whom he reports as all having an ancient Egyptian origin.

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    New Kingdom Pharaohs Cont.

























    Third Intermediate Period (Libyan/Berber Rule)
    Harsiese A


    Takelot II

    Osorkon III

    Takelot III

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    More Egyptian- inner African links

    The Placenta in Lore and Legend


    Body Ornaments







    Above: Ancient Egyptian dancers, with attention to those in nude; bottom image - courtesy of the Metropolitan Museum, we have: Standing Male and Female Figures, 18th–19th century — Democratic Republic of Congo; Tabwa — Wood, beads; H. 18 7/32 in. (46.28 cm), H. 18 1/2 in. (47 cm) — The Michael C. Rockefeller Memorial Collection, Purchase, Nelson A. Rockefeller Gift, 1969 (1978.412.591,2).

    Attention to detail here focuses on the string of beads around the waist of nude females, another fairly common theme in many African societies. The resolutions of the images above might not be high enough, but careful inspection shows said beads around the waist of ancient Egyptian female figures in every instance they appeared nude. This theme is repeated in the Congolese wood carving example above, wherein the string of beads around the waist is visibly absent in the male figure, but obvious on the female counterpart.




    Left: Egyptian step pyramid [Djoser's], and right: The Askia tomb [Mali], mimicking the structure of a step pyramid.

    Burial mounds gave way to Mastabas, and Mastaba traditions matured into the grand Egyptian pyramids. Tombs like the Askia structure too ultimately derive from indigenous Sahelian tumuli traditions associated with burials. Courtesy archnet library, we are told for example...

    The Tomb of Askia is the central commanding feature of the Great Mosque of Gao. This layout pays homage to the Saharan tradition of prominent ancestral tumuli or tomb mounds erected over graves that date to before 1,000 BC. This large feature was incorporated into a new mosque building tradition in which the mosque itself becomes a combination of tomb, minaret and sacred enclosure. - archnet library

    Courtesy of UNESCO World Heritage Collection,…

    Criterion (ii): The Tomb of Askia reflects the way local building traditions in response to Islamic needs absorbed influences from North Africa to create a unique architectural style across the West African sahel. Criterion (iii): The Tomb of Askia is an important vestige of the Empire of Songhai, which once dominated the sahel lands of West Africa and controlled the lucrative trans- Saharan trade. Criterion (iv): The Tomb of Askia reflects the distinctive architectural tradition of the West African sahel and in particular exemplifies the way buildings evolve over centuries through regular, traditional, maintenance practices.

    Egyptologist ABOUBACRY MOUSSA LAM for example, had gone to great lengths to show parallels between the Egyptian staff designs and those from both west Africa and east Africa, citing examples like the Fulani and Dogon amongst other groups.

    Below, we have an early and a rather simple rendition dating back to ca. 3500 BC, found in the Hierakonpolis tomb 100, sporting several individuals holding what appear to be Was scepters.



    And here, we have a mock up of a Was scepter:



    The following "Hangool" staff of Somali make, is reminiscent of the Was scepter, with its forked base...



    Similarly, here we have the "Woko" staff from Ethiopia...



    The use of staff's goes back even further however to civilizations of the ancient Sahara. The following is a "North Saharan" — from "Kargur Talh" in particular — rendition dating to ca. 6ky to 7ky BP; it notably sports a male figure holding what appears to be a staff, reminiscent of the Was scepter...


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    yeah ok and even if they did come out of Egypt this was before Egypt was anything special. plus Bantus come from west Africa

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerryCarr View Post
    yeah ok and even if they did come out of Egypt this was before Egypt was anything special.
    Why would you assume that when African oral traditions point to specific events of turmoil Egyptian history which lead to their exodus? They give specific names to specific people and have in debt knowledge of the true ancient Egyptian ways of life (Basil Davidson even attested to this). The Kalenjiin (though Nilo-Saharan speakers) recount having to flee ancient Egypt when the "Kipyayamungeens" (Persians) invaded. The Dogon speak of being exiled from Egypt to escape religious persecution Oduodwa the Yoruba ancestor is stated to have came from ancient Egypt to also escape persecution under foreign rule. The famous Senegalese nuclear scientist/African historian Cheikh Anta Diop also claims that his respective Wolof people of Senegal have an ancient Egyptian origin. Like the Yoruba list presented on the previous here is the Wolof.

    Pharaonic Egyptian - Wolof; (Wolof meaning)

    • aam - aam : seize (take this)
    • aar - aar : paradise (divine protection)
    • Aku - Aku : foreigners (Creole descendants of European traders and African wives)
    • anu - K.enou : pillar
    • atef - ate : a crown of Osiris, judge of the soul (to judge)
    • ba - bei : the ram-god (goat)
    • bai - bai : a priestly title (father)
    • ben ben - ben ben : overflow, flood
    • bon - bon : evil
    • bu - bu : place
    • bu bon - bu bon : evil place
    • bu nafret - bu rafet : good place
    • da - da : child
    • deg - deega : to see, to look at carefully (to understand)
    • deresht - deret : blood
    • diou - diou rom : five
    • djit - djit : magistrate (guide, leader)
    • Djoob - Djob : a surname
    • dtti - datti : the savage desert (the savage brush)
    • Etbo - temb : the 'floater' (to float)
    • fei - fab : to carry
    • fero - fari : king
    • iaay - yaay : old woman (mother)
    • ire - yer : to make
    • itef - itef : father
    • kat - kata : vagina (to have sexual intercourse)
    • kau - kaou : elevated, above (heaven)
    • kau - kau : high, above, heaven
    • kaw - kaw : height
    • kef - kef : to seize, grasp
    • kem -khem : black (burnt, burnt black)
    • kemat - kematef : end of a period, completion, limit
    • khekh - khekh : to fight, to wage war, war
    • kher - ker : country (house)
    • kwk - kwk : darkness
    • lebou - Lebou : those at the stream, Lebou/fishermen Senegal
    • maat - mat : justice
    • maga - mag : veteran, old person
    • mer - maar : love (passionate love)
    • mun - won : buttocks
    • nag - nag : bull (cattle)
    • nak - nak : ox, bull (cow)
    • NDam - NDam : throne
    • neb - ndab : float
    • nen - nen : place where nothing is done (nothingness)
    • nit - nit : citizen
    • Ntr - Twr : protecting god, totem
    • nwt - nit : fire of heaven (evening light)
    • o.k. - wah keh : correct, right
    • onef - onef : he (past tense)
    • ones - ones : she (past tense)
    • onsen - onsen : they (past tense)
    • pe - pey : capital, heaven (King's capital)
    • per - per : house (the wall surrounding the house)
    • pur - bur : king
    • ram - yaram : body, shoulder (body)
    • rem - erem : to weap, tears (compassion)
    • ro - ro : mouth (to swallow)
    • sa - sa : wise, educated, to teach
    • seh - seh : noble (dignitary)
    • seked - seggay : a slope
    • sen - sen : brother
    • sent - san : sister
    • set - set : woman (wife)
    • shopi - sopi : to transform
    • sity - seety : to prove
    • sok - sookha : to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat)
    • ta - ta : earth, land (inundated earth)
    • ta tenen - ten : first lands (clay of first humans)
    • tefnit - tefnit : to spit
    • tem - tem : to completely stop doing something
    • tn.r - dener : to remember (to imagine)
    • top - bop : top of head
    • twr - twr : libation
    • uuh - uuf : carry
    • wer - wer : great, trustworthy


    These are everyday words (child, mother, goat, bull, citizen, trust, throne, God ect ect). These vast similarities are significant and must be taken into account and an origin that is isolated from the Nile Valley/ancient Egypt is simply impossible given these parallels. Greenburg (a non African) got it wrong as the African scholars, elders/historians have pointed out. It should also be noted that Theophile Obenga's (an African) "Negro-Egyptian" phylum which grouped ancient Egyptian with Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan (and groups Berber and Semitic together) was never debunked and in fact Christopher Ehret (who was sent to do the job) ended up having to agree with Obenga.

    [IMG][/IMG]



    The inclusion of Nilo-Saharan into this family would also explain the Kalenjin linguistic link that is noted in the article on the previous page. Take this in consideration with the other lines of evidence that have been presented. You know who you clearly see in the statuary (don't let "others" try to obfuscate the truth with their hate). The true descendants of the ancient Egyptians are the black people throughout Africa and their descendants else where (just as the African scholars above have stated).

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    Meant to put up this video of Obegna


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    Unnamed New Kingdom pharaoh statue just unearth today.


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