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Thread: The ancient Egyptian/Nile Valley Origins of Bantu Speakers2063 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    Just because there are similarities and even origin myth does not mean these people come from Egypt in recent times.
    Did you see the M2 lineage map on page one? How did that wind up in West Africa from Northeast Africa (Nubia and Egypt) and when? Stories from every "Niger-Congo" speaking group specially recount "Kemet" and Nubia (or even the Middle East in some cases) as their origins and or at least migrated from that region of East Africa. The fact is these Western "scholars" are simply playing games with our true history, and all we need to do is look at the lies that the told about Kemet's racial affinities to rid them of any trust in this respect (or any).



    Senegalese Lutte (Wolof and Serer) and ancient Egyptian wrestling


















    Imagine trying to subdue these Africans without guns. :whist:


    More on the Serer of Senegal

    Serer is the name of the second largest ethnic group located in Senegal and the Gambia in West Africa. The word Serer, in ancient Egyptian, means "he who traces the temples." Thus, although Serer are mainly found today in Senegal, they have a long history across Africa. Some Serer people are also found in the country of Mauretania. They are an ancient people whose history reaches deep into the past during various migrations from the North and East to their present home in West Africa. In fact, the Serer have several distinct languages, although they are viewed as one ethnic group. For example, the largest language among the Serer is called Serer-Sine, but there is also Serer-Noon, Serer – Ndut, Serer-Palor, Serer-Safen, and Serer-Lehar. These distinct languages are spoken in different parts of the countries of Senegal, Gambia, and Mauretania, and they represent the remnants of powerful ancient kingdoms, specifically the Kingdom of Sine and the Kingdom of Saloum. The latter kingdom counts more than 100 kings in its lineage, from the 11th century to the 21st century.

    Religiously, the Serer follow the pattern of many West African people: They have a belief in one Supreme Deity, Roog. In their view, Roog created Everything in the universe, but all of the ordinary things that have to do with daily life, relationships, land disputes, war, and death are left to the ancestors. Among the Serer, there are elaborate ceremonies surrounding their relationship with their clan and totemic ancestors. Names such as Faye, Sar, Fall, Diagne, and Diouf are considered totemic for the Serer.

    The oral tradition of the Serer states that they traveled from the Upper Nile to West Africa. One of the reasons that Cheikh Anta Diop claimed that the Serer were able to reject Islam, being one of the few African groups in the West African Sahel region to do so successfully, might be because of their strong connection to their ancient religious past. Scholars have long believed that the route of the Serer from their ancient homeland in East Africa can be traced by upright stones found along the latitude they traveled from East to West, from Ethiopia to the region of Sine-Saloum.

    Linked to the religious beliefs of the Serer is the fact that their ancestors came through the Sudanese village of Tundi-Daro and erected upright stones in the shape of a phallus and a female organ. It is believed that this was an agrarian practice that symbolized the ritual union of the sky and Earth as a way to give birth to vegetation, their daughter. The vegetation from this divine union was a cosmic trinity that harks back to the African trinity of Ausar-Auset-Heru. Thus, the ancestors to the Serer carved stones of two sexual organs to invite the divinities to couple and give them good harvests. It was the desire to ensure material existence that drove humans to this process of ritualizing the divine union.

    The Serer people still retain the deity service to the upright stones. At one time during the 14th century, they planted pestles that were used as altars for libations, called dek-kur, by the Wolof who have mixed with many of the Serer. Indeed, the idea of dek-kur means anvil or receptacle. The ancient town of Tundi-Daro means, in Wolof, the hill of sexual union in a ritual sense, affirming much of the Serer oral tradition.

    What is more interesting in terms of the religion of the Serer is that their burial rites were the same as those of the ancient kings of Ghana and Egypt. The deceased, after an elaborate ceremony, was buried in luxury depending on what was available, laid on a bed, and around him were placed all the usual domestic and ordinary materials, tools, and objects with which he was familiar during life and maybe a rooster to awaken him. He may have been mummified in the manner of Sunni Ali Ber, the great king of Songhai, because mummification seems to have remained only in the Angola region.

    There are many linkages to other parts of Africa, specifically ancient Kemet, in the religion of Serer. It seems possible that the Serer found the sacred city of Kaon upon their arrival in Sine – Saloum as a replica of the Egyptian city of the same name. In addition, the name of the deity Roog suggests Ra. Indeed, Roog was often complemented by the national epithet, Sen. Kemetologists have seen in the Serer name Sar, a widely used Serer name, the idea of nobility, because in ancient Kemet (Egypt), the term Sa Ra meant Son of God. A linguistic variant of this is San, from the nobility of Sudan, as in the expression San-Kore, the area where the nobility and intellectuals lived in Timbuktu.

    Clearly, the Serer represent an African people with an extensive religious history and fascinating regard for human community as expressed in their language. From their famous burial mounds, tumuli, or pyramids to their intense philosophical reflections on the nature of space and time, human relationships, and the meaning of life, the Serer are in the tradition of Africans who have confronted their environment with numerous questions and answers.

    Molefi Kete Asante

    Serpent 607

    See also Ancestors Further Readings

    Asante, M. K., & Nwadiora, E. (2007). Spear Masters: Introduction to African Religion. Lanham, MD: University Press of America. Diop, C. A. (1987). Precolonial Black Africa. Westport, CT: Lawrence Hill.

    link

    Ramses II (Ramses The Great)



    A Tutsi with red henna hair die. (to those who didn't know)






    He drove out the Tamahou. The Tamahou referred to a tribe in Libya or "Sea Peoples" who had came into Northern Africa from the Island of Patmos (southern Europe) where they "originated". This Egyptian word translates literally to "created white people" (though they were referred to as red because the blood vessels showing through their depigmented skin as a result of the sun burns).





    Put him out in the sun (Ra) for a day and give him a pitch fork


    On a side note though who is aware of the fact that 40% ancient Rome's population had tails. Keep in mind that Rome was racially diverse, so I wonder is tails characterized the early "civilized" (can't forget about that millennium in the Caucus mountains which didn't even produce a language let alone a civilization) white populations?

    Ramses II is most famous for the exile of "white people" out of Egypt (a western secret). It is for this reason that the notoriously racist Napoleon Bonapart during his raid on the grave yards of our Egyptian ancestors he destroyed so much (including shooting the nose and lips off of the Sphinx with cannons). This is also the true meaning behind this statue of Champoleon (Napoleon's right hand man and the "father of Egyptology") having his foot on top of the statue of this pharaoh's statue.



    https://youtu.be/kT5YFjQiNdc?t=45m9s
    Last edited by Tally up; 2015-04-23 at 16:53.

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    There is no need to bring up Senegalese wrestlers 1000's of miles away when other wrestlers.....IN Sudan, show physical and genetic continuity with Ancient remains of the region. The descendants of the Egypto-Sudanese "Nubian" wrestlers inhabit Sudan today. I do real research and follow real scholarship so you are not going to convince me with pictures.

    E-M2 is not found in Sudan AFIAK. It has not been sampled in any indigenous Sudanese group. You are going to have to divorce Egypt and Sudan when speaking of E-M2.

    So far.....The ancient migration of Humans from the western periphery of the African continent toward the Nile...and even the contribution of Western Africans to Egypt in the Trans Saharan Slave trade - is likely more important and REAL compared to phantom recent mass migrations of modern West African ethnic groups from Egypt.

    I have a hard time entertaining such nonsense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    There is no need to bring up Senegalese wrestlers 1000's of miles away when other wrestlers.....IN Sudan,
    South Sudan you mean? South Sudan is where the Nilotes live, and they were the ancient inhabitants of the Central Sahara during it's fertile period. They are characterized by the pottery found in that region and further West (into Niger) around 10,000 B.C. These Nilotes were just one African element (the central/Western Saharan element) that migrated East onto the Nile Valley along with the "Bantu" (general "Niger-Congo speakers") populations whom inhabited the Western desert of Egypt and into Libya (hence the "black mummy"/"Negroid" found in ancient Libya which predates Dynastic Egypt and mummification) during the fertile period, and subsequently migrating back onto the Nile Valley. The migration of both of these African groups Eastward along the Nile (notice in both Kemet and Sudan) is the reason why the last phase of the map below shows a doubling of settlements in the last drying phase along the Nile (the incoming Nilotes who were not on the lower Nile Valley during the period).



    The first three phases are explained by this map.

    Original homeland of the Bantu up to 1500 A.D
    Dark shading: Possible ultimate origin of the Bantu
    Cross shading: Area of Bantu expansion into Egypt


    show physical and genetic continuity with Ancient remains of the region.
    There were four primary African groups along the Nile Valley during Dynastic Egypt. Our family of Africans (Niger-Congo/Anu/Bantu people characterized by the M2 lineage) were of course the rulers (don't make me get to deep into it) , "Ethiopic" (M-35), Nilotes (A and B), and the Twa (B I believe).

    The only group of Africans who stayed and mixed in with the white invaders were the Ethiopic African groups (which is most apparent today) and it is their remnants that predominates Northeast Africa TODAY and is technical way that one can claim continuity with an element of ancient Nile Valley populations.


    Vs


    These are the distinct facial features of our group (Niger-Congo, Bantu, Anu or the people) and they characterized ancient Kemetic pharaohic lineages did they not? Who else has wide noses and thick lips? Why don't these features characterize a large sect of Egypt's population today? Does Menes Narmer really look like this Somalian guy with these "nice features", and with a likely related genetic lineage to contemporary Northeast African populations? Let's be real here!

    I do real research and follow real scholarship so you are not going to convince me with pictures.
    "Real" as in there are fakes? Who are the fakes and who are the real scholars? From history (the last few centuries at least) we should easily be able to identify who the fakes and or unrealiables are. One good example was already given on page one with Frank Yurco, and his utter butchering of the truth. Even with that example something tells me that your standards of "real scholarship" would somehow bypass considerations such as those, and for some reason snub the works of the late great master teach Dr. Ben. If that is in fact the case then we are two completely different mindsets.

    E-M2 is not found in Sudan AFIAK.
    Exactly but the M2 lineage was found to characterize every non late Dynastic Egyptian mummy tested thus far...oh and along with that blood disease called sickle cell which is a disorder characteristic of "Niger-Congo" speaking populations and or descent. You have our genetic lineage, our blood disease, or languages, statues of our distinctly broad facial features carved in the walls of these ancient civilizations, and even the history of our people (oral) saying that we came from these places. These facts imply that migrations occurred which directly involve our people and Kemet-Nubia, wouldn't you say so?

    So far.....The ancient migration of Humans from the western periphery of the African continent toward the Nile...
    You have it backwards. They migrated from the East to Western Africa (trace the arrows on the genetic markers).



    In Christopher Ehret's explanation for this he ironically states that this East to West migration of Niger-Congo languages (and subsequently the M2 lineage) occurred when he claims that the made up language family (according to just about every African scholar) called "Afro-Asiatic" migrated from the exact same East African location Northward into Egypt and subsequent areas.

    and even the contribution of Western Africans to Egypt in the Trans Saharan Slave trade - is likely more important and REAL compared to phantom recent mass migrations of modern West African ethnic groups from Egypt.
    By "more important" are you referencing the various genetic analysis of modern Egyptians? If that is the case then you are likely correct, as these modern Egyptians connected to the ancients inhabitants of the Nile Valley through only one element (the Ethiopic element, which comprised a third of the ancient Egyptian population according the UNESCO) of the ancient Egyptian diverse African population. Of course the Niger-Congo/Negroid element or the "Anu" people (who comprised over a third of the ancient Egyptian population according to UNESCO) were the dominant group whom everyone bowed down to. They migrated south into Kush following the Persian invasion (which even ancient Nilotic groups like the Kalengin recall encountering these "mysterious white people" along the Nile Valley too). From Kush we brought our iron technology smelting (another damning piece of evidence that Western agents do not acknowledge) into Western Africa-Southern Africa which created civilizations like the Nok in Nigeria which were founded on that same iron age Nile Valley technology and Osiris-Asset Kemetic religion.

    Now if you want to ignore key pieces of evidence (real culture and language from African sources), because they don't have the white stamp of approval tsk tsk!

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