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    Default Eurogenes v3

    I think I was too harsh when I said the K13 results for La Brana-1 and MA-1 were noisy. They just looked noisy, probably because the clusters based on modern samples weren't a good fit for the ancient genomes. See here for more info...

    Updated Eurogenes K13 population averages



    Last edited by Polako; 2014-03-22 at 02:57.
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    This is great stuff. So this population averages/structure is based on what exactly? The La Brana-1 and MA-1 samples? How will Eurogenes v3 differ from v2 and v1?

    And would it be correct to say that Armenians, Assyrians and Georgian/Kurdish Jews are the same genetic group, since they cluster so tight together in that image of yours?

    By the way, blogpost of yours deleted, but when you update it or re-add it on your blog, don't forget to update the link here.

    Edit:

    Okay so I just noticed the positions of MA-1 and La-Brana-1. So La-Brana-1 was basically proto-Nordic and MA-1 was proto-Sardinian?
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2014-03-19 at 21:55.
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    I think Middle Easterners are closer to MA-1 than they are to La Brana.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    How will Eurogenes v3 differ from v2 and v1?
    Hard to say exactly. Things move so fast in this area that it's very difficult to plan anything.

    And would it be correct to say that Armenians, Assyrians and Georgian/Kurdish Jews are the same genetic group, since they cluster so tight together in that image of yours?
    They're very similar, but there are differences between them. It depends what you choose to call a genetic group.

    By the way, blogpost of yours deleted, but when you update it or re-add it on your blog, don't forget to update the link here.
    I fixed the link.

    Okay so I just noticed the positions of MA-1 and La-Brana-1. So La-Brana-1 was basically proto-Nordic and MA-1 was proto-Sardinian?
    La Brana-1 is a Western Hunter-Gatherer of Middle Eastern origin, so he's closer to the Middle East than MA-1 in terms of phylogeny. But there's no recent La Brana-1 related ancestry in the the Middle East, while there's a lot of MA-1 related admixture there, especially near the Caucasus and Iran, so MA-1 clusters between Eastern Europe and Caucasus on the first tree above, while La Brana-1 is further down.

    Sardinians are about as far as Europeans can get from both La Brana-1 and MA-1, and essentially the best living examples of early Neolithic Mediterranean farmers. That's probably why they're at the bottom of the tree, on a fairly long branch of their own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polako View Post
    Sardinians are about as far as Europeans can get from both La Brana-1 and MA-1, and essentially the best living examples of early Neolithic Mediterranean farmers. That's probably why they're at the bottom of the tree, on a fairly long branch of their own.
    I still find it peculiar that in both Moorjani et al. and the recent Hellenthal et al. Sardinians were reported to have admixed in the relatively recent past (2000 - 2700 years). Unless, it is because of their purported admixture that they resemble Neolithic Mediterranean farmers the best, from among modern populations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    I still find it peculiar that in both Moorjani et al. and the recent Hellenthal et al. Sardinians were reported to have admixed in the relatively recent past (2000 - 2700 years). Unless, it is because of their purported admixture that they resemble Neolithic Mediterranean farmers the best, from among modern populations.
    I don't think those Rolloff dates are very reliable. I suspect the problem is that the same assumptions can't be made about populations with very different demographic histories. In other words, what works for, say, the French won't work for Lithuanians.

    - - - Updated - - -

    By the way, here are the K15 (Eutest v2) results for La Brana-1 and MA-1.

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    It doesn't make any sense that Assyrians, Kurdish Jews, Armenians, Georgian Jews and Turks are part of top half of this West Eurasian macrocluster. Which is the WHG+ANE cluster, shouldn't they be on the bottom half?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrousMandaru View Post
    It doesn't make any sense that Assyrians, Kurdish Jews, Armenians, Georgian Jews and Turks are part of top half of this West Eurasian macrocluster. Which is the WHG+ANE cluster, shouldn't they be on the bottom half?
    They're not Mediterranean/Southwest Asian enough, and too West Asian/Caucasus-like.

    Also, the WHG/ANE combination peaks in the Northern/Eastern European cluster below. So the tree would actually be more useful as a circle, with the Assyrians and Near Eastern Jews joining up with the Samaritans and the like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polako View Post
    They're not Mediterranean/Southwest Asian enough, and too West Asian/Caucasus-like.

    Also, the WHG/ANE combination peaks in the Northern/Eastern European cluster below. So the tree would actually be more useful as a circle, with the Assyrians and Near Eastern Jews joining up with the Samaritans and the like.
    Do you think that Caucasus/West Asian has ANE ancestry in it? If so, would removing to cause those populations to become more Mediterranean/Southwest Asian-like?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrousMandaru View Post
    Do you think that Caucasus/West Asian has ANE ancestry in it? If so, would removing to cause those populations to become more Mediterranean/Southwest Asian-like?
    Yes, plus maybe South Asian and East Asian influence for some, like the Turks.
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