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Thread: Mexican Genetic Discussion1345 days old

  1. #881
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Andullero View Post
    Just look at my case, 8%, it's plain outrageous, to put it mildly.
    Yeah, also potenia's father who i thought his high unassigned was due to a piece of tortilla getting inside the tube when he was spitting smh

    As of now, i will only be suggesting ancestrydna until 23andme fixes this issue

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  4. #882
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    Quote Originally Posted by Targum View Post
    Actually member @Longbowman has more recent Sephardic (British Spanish-Portuguese Community) ancestry, as well as Wesrern Ashkenazi(German Jewish) which is almost identical to Sephardic. My family has been Eastern Ashkenazi for several hundred years. However: as @Celph Titled refers I, as well as member @kevin Brook, have numerous Mexican matches on Gedmatch. They are from NW Mexico, and the shared segments indicate a common ancestor approx 200-300 years ago.That means we have a common Sephardic ancestor whose descendants, my Mexican matches from Nuevo León on one hand, and Kevin Brook and I on the other, include Mexicans who no longer are Jewish as well as Ashkenazim.
    My ancestry breakdown, per genealogy going back 5 generations (I know one or two lines that go back further have distant ancestors of this or that demographic but I can't be bothered to tally those up right now):

    100% Jewish, of which
    84.375% Ashkenazi, including
    50% Galitsyaner (Southeastern)
    21.875% Yekke (Silesian, Prussian)
    6.25% Poylisher (Plock, culturally/linguistically basically Yekke)
    6.25% Odessan (probably Litvak, maybe Galitsyaner)
    9.375% Sephardi, all of which
    Spanish & Portuguese Jewish (mostly Marranos, some Italians too)
    6.25% Musta'arabi, all of which
    Baghdadi Jewish (Iraqi and Syrian Jews from China and India)

    anyhow I reckon I'm at least considerably eastern Ashkenazi being as all my dad's family are from rural Galicia. I am most likely the most Sephardic person on this site though, definitely in terms of culture and upbringing.
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  6. #883
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    I found these links that show Mexicans from certain cities/municipalities who got a scholarship, anyways it shows their last names, both paternal and maternal.

    I only found these two from Michoacán

    First one is from the municipality of Morelia, it showed a good number of Spanish last names I never heard before at all, there are a few Hispaniczed colonial last names there, but I would need to get on the computer to research the first families of Morelia

    http://becafuturo.michoacan.gob.mx/b...os/MORELIA.pdf


    The next one is from the municipality of Uruapan
    http://becafuturo.michoacan.gob.mx/b...os/URUAPAN.pdf



    This is from Culiacán, Sinaloa, which received a large wave of Basque immigrants, it's pretty evident in their last names and like I had mentioned before, Spanish last names are just as common as Basque in the state of Sinaloa and Sonora which were the two states that received the largest amount of Basques in Mexico

    https://apps.culiacan.gob.mx/transpa...marzo_2017.pdf

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  8. #884
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    My ancestry breakdown, [...]
    9.375% Sephardi, all of which
    Spanish & Portuguese Jewish (mostly Marranos, some Italians too)
    [...] I am most likely the most Sephardic person on this site though
    Almost, but "kingjohn" joined this forum and he's around 25% Sephardic because his mother's father was a Sephardic Jew from Bulgaria who spoke Ladino. However, there are genetic indications that kingjohn's mother had some Ashkenazic background mixed in (not from her ethnic Bulgarian mother).

    My father and I share two phased segments with kingjohn's mother that do not have any matches from Converso families, and my mother matches her on another segment that again doesn't have a Converso match, so I think all of my common ancestors with kingjohn were probably Ashkenazim. That also includes the character of our segments that match kingjohn's half-Ashkenazic father.

    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    definitely in terms of culture and upbringing.
    I think you are correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinbrook View Post
    Almost, but "kingjohn" joined this forum and he's around 25% Sephardic because his mother's father was a Sephardic Jew from Bulgaria who spoke Ladino. However, there are genetic indications that kingjohn's mother had some Ashkenazic background mixed in (not from her ethnic Bulgarian mother).

    My father and I share two phased segments with kingjohn's mother that do not have any matches from Converso families, and my mother matches her on another segment that again doesn't have a Converso match, so I think all of my common ancestors with kingjohn were probably Ashkenazim. That also includes the character of our segments that match kingjohn's half-Ashkenazic father.



    I think you are correct.
    explanation to aschenazi ancestery among sefhardic jews from bulgaria
    jews from hungary came in 1376 to sofia also
    jews from bavaria in 1470 came to to sofia bulgaria

    i score 36% sefhardic in my origins 2.0 huge man
    my father score 39% sugessting that syrian jews are also sefhardic from iberia
    the highest sefhardic score i saw is 60% among sefhardi turkish person
    this sefhardic also score some 15% southern european elments { 6% southeast europe+ 9% iberia=15% }
    but i agree that culturaly longbow win big time except genes i don't feal culturaly that sefhardic ..... dont know ladino
    my grandfather knew.
    i have latin americans matches from mexico puerto ricko and colombia in family finder some of the conquistadors were sefhardic anusim /marrons ...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzal...nez_de_Quesada
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_de_O%C3%B1ate

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinbrook View Post
    Almost, but "kingjohn" joined this forum and he's around 25% Sephardic because his mother's father was a Sephardic Jew from Bulgaria who spoke Ladino. However, there are genetic indications that kingjohn's mother had some Ashkenazic background mixed in (not from her ethnic Bulgarian mother).

    My father and I share two phased segments with kingjohn's mother that do not have any matches from Converso families, and my mother matches her on another segment that again doesn't have a Converso match, so I think all of my common ancestors with kingjohn were probably Ashkenazim. That also includes the character of our segments that match kingjohn's half-Ashkenazic father.



    I think you are correct.
    explanation to aschenazi ancestery among sefhardic jews from bulgaria
    jews from hungary came in 1376 to sofia also
    jews from bavaria in 1470 came to to sofia bulgaria

    i score 36% sefhardic in my origins 2.0 huge man
    my father score 39% sugessting that syrian jews are also sefhardic from iberia
    the highest sefhardic score i saw is 60% among sefhardi turkish person
    this sefhardic also score some 15% southern european elments { 6% southeast europe+ 9% iberia=15% }
    but i agree that culturaly longbow win big time except genes i don't feal culturaly that sefhardic ..... dont know ladino
    my grandfather knew.
    i have latin americans matches from mexico puerto ricko and colombia in family finder some of the conquistadors were sefhardic anusim /marrons ...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzal...nez_de_Quesada
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_de_O%C3%B1ate
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_d..._y_de_la_Cueva
    Last edited by kingjohn; 2017-10-12 at 08:53.

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  12. #886
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinbrook View Post
    Almost, but "kingjohn" joined this forum and he's around 25% Sephardic because his mother's father was a Sephardic Jew from Bulgaria who spoke Ladino. However, there are genetic indications that kingjohn's mother had some Ashkenazic background mixed in (not from her ethnic Bulgarian mother).

    My father and I share two phased segments with kingjohn's mother that do not have any matches from Converso families, and my mother matches her on another segment that again doesn't have a Converso match, so I think all of my common ancestors with kingjohn were probably Ashkenazim. That also includes the character of our segments that match kingjohn's half-Ashkenazic father.
    When you investigate lines, they're always mixed. I had one grandmother who simply said she was Sephardic. When I investigated, she had one Musta'arabi grandparent (who, OK, could easily, and may indeed, have had Sephardic ancestry; nothing in my ancestry painting suggests it, for some odd reason - random inheritance patterns, I suppose - I do appear as if that segment were simply Sephardic) and an Ashkenazi-born father (that last one wasn't a secret). The rest of it comes from my grandfather's one Sephardic grandmother.

    No one in my family spoke Djudeszmo for centuries, though.

    I think you are correct.
    Naturally.
    Click here for definitive proof that the holocaust never happened!

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePendragon View Post
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    So it's common for Ashkenazi Jews to have Sephardic ancestors just like Sephardic Jews to have Ashkenazi ancestors?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celph Titled View Post
    So it's common for Ashkenazi Jews to have Sephardic ancestors just like Sephardic Jews to have Ashkenazi ancestors?
    Sephardi Jews from Balkan Bulgaria turkey defiantly have some aschenazi admixture
    even a full Turkish Sephardi results i talked about earlier score 9% aschenazi
    if you talk about Sephardi Jews from morocco the answer is they have only 1% aschenazi ancestry almost nothing
    so bottom line Sephardi Jews from Balkan have some aschenazi admixture but it is more than Sephardi admixture in aschenazi communities since many aschenazi don't score Sephardi at all in my origins 2.0 or only 1-2% extremely low .
    regards
    adam


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Celph Titled View Post
    So it's common for Ashkenazi Jews to have Sephardic ancestors just like Sephardic Jews to have Ashkenazi ancestors?
    Sephardi Jews from Balkan Bulgaria turkey defiantly have some aschenazi admixture
    even a full Turkish Sephardi results i talked about earlier score 9% aschenazi
    if you talk about Sephardi Jews from morocco the answer is they have only 1% aschenazi ancestry almost nothing
    so bottom line Sephardi Jews from Balkan have some aschenazi admixture but it is more than Sephardi admixture in aschenazi communities since many aschenazi don't score Sephardi at all in my origins 2.0 or only 1-2% extremely low .
    regards
    adam

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    The key determinant in confirming a Sephardic segment versus an Ashkenazic segment is the presence of one or more matches from a Catholic community that was historically isolated from Ashkenazim -- such as Catholics in Portugal, Spain, Mexico, New Mexico, Puerto Rico, or Cuba.

    I did not yet receive any research assistance from the established Jewish and Crypto-Jewish communities of Portugal and Spain, even though I reached out to some of them, but I got lucky in August. The following is public knowledge because it was posted by Nuno and me to GEDmatch's public forum, so I will repeat a summary here. I did this research myself.

    Nuno Freire da Silva, born in southern Portugal to a nominally Catholic family with deep roots there that retained some Jewish laws and customs into modern times,
    1. shares a valid autosomal DNA segment with a Mexican and Ashkenazic Jews;
    2. shares a valid autosomal DNA segment with 16 Puerto Ricans, a Panamanian, and Ashkenazic Jews;
    3. shares a valid autosomal DNA segment with 3 Latin American Hispanics (I couldn't determine which country) and Ashkenazic Jews.

    A segment that merely matches a member of one Sephardic Jewish community without a Latin American or Iberian match who doesn't have recent Ashkenazic ancestry cannot be guaranteed to be Sephardic in origin like the above segments can be.

    With Longbowman, I share both Ashkenazic and Sephardic genetic ancestors. One of the segments we have in common includes a Mexican from the northeastern Mexico/Tejano cluster.
    According to my manual segment match-analysis + calculations, I am genetically 98.34% Ashkenazi Jewish, 1.09% Sephardic Jewish, 0.11% Mizrahi Jewish, and 0.46% Polish Catholic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinbrook View Post
    The key determinant in confirming a Sephardic segment versus an Ashkenazic segment is the presence of one or more matches from a Catholic community that was historically isolated from Ashkenazim -- such as Catholics in Portugal, Spain, Mexico, New Mexico, Puerto Rico, or Cuba.

    I did not yet receive any research assistance from the established Jewish and Crypto-Jewish communities of Portugal and Spain, even though I reached out to some of them, but I got lucky in August. The following is public knowledge because it was posted by Nuno and me to GEDmatch's public forum, so I will repeat a summary here. I did this research myself.

    Nuno Freire da Silva, born in southern Portugal to a nominally Catholic family with deep roots there that retained some Jewish laws and customs into modern times,
    1. shares a valid autosomal DNA segment with a Mexican and Ashkenazic Jews;
    2. shares a valid autosomal DNA segment with 16 Puerto Ricans, a Panamanian, and Ashkenazic Jews;
    3. shares a valid autosomal DNA segment with 3 Latin American Hispanics (I couldn't determine which country) and Ashkenazic Jews.

    A segment that merely matches a member of one Sephardic Jewish community without a Latin American or Iberian match who doesn't have recent Ashkenazic ancestry cannot be guaranteed to be Sephardic in origin like the above segments can be.

    With Longbowman, I share both Ashkenazic and Sephardic genetic ancestors. One of the segments we have in common includes a Mexican from the northeastern Mexico/Tejano cluster.
    Interesting, I'm curious to know if there is a way in differenating Portuguese Jewish ancestry from Spanish Jewish ancestry, because I remember AncestryDNA putting out a study in regards to the Jewish ancestry in Latin Americans, they said that their study confirmed Portuguese Jewish ancestry in Mexico, but my question has been, if Jews are so closely related, how on earth were they able to do that?

    I was reading recently about the colonizers of early Mexico, from like 1518
    5% of the colonizers were Portuguese in which according to the source majority of them were crypto-Jews.
    3.1% were Italians who also came to Mexico during 1518

    Neri is primarily found in Brazil and Mexico, both countries has a high frequency of the surname Neri

    "Back to the 12th century, Neri, was supposedly a noble family from Tuscany, while other sources cites jewish roots from Sicily as its earliest reference in Italy, thus, its real origin remains unknown."

    Could some of those Italians that came to Mexico could've been also Jews?

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