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Thread: Genetics studies of Ancient Egyptians?1890 days old

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    ^ Go back and reread my post.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    Thinking of AE solely as some continuation of horners are thoughts from the "Old guard."
    New research or even analysis from older publications can state something different.

    For instance look at the physical profile and analysis of This mummy's remains.
    I wouldn't count the CRANID program as end all be all of accurate genetic affinity but notice the affinity of the remains with the DOGON

    Mind you, East Africans AND Horners are present in the CRANID database.

    Here you have a researching saying the Horus-Osirus cult could be a direct transplantation from Western Africa.

    Has anyone not noticed every recently released bit of ancient data from the region has shown the remains having a 'sub Saharan' affinity, but not connected to the sub Saharans we assumed? From A-Group to DNA tribes, to DNA Consultants and Ramesses III.
    Indeed, it seems like the more research is done, the more we see the AE people sharing similarities with sub-Saharan Africans who today live in faraway areas of the continent. And re-analysis of old studies that were regarded as crazy at the time, often supports this. The Dogon link is interesting, considering East Africans and Horners are present. It’s sort of like the DNA Tribes study again showing the AE mummies with closer affinities to the Great Lakes instead of East Africa and the Horn.

    Early West African urban centres like Dhar Tichitt were in existence contemporarily with Ancient Egypt, and we know of common cultural patterns observed across the Saharan/Sahel region from West to (North-)East Africa. So it shouldn’t be surprising that we see biological links between them, in addition to cultural.

    I mean, we find evidence of peoples living in the same continent, across practically the same latitudes, living in often the same environment (without geographic barriers like today), practicing the same lifestyle with similar cultural styles like religion and pottery. When we break AE culture down to its basics it shares the closest elements with SSA moreso than any other region, and what later evolved into what's seen as stereotypical AE in many cases emerged from deeper south (ex. Sudan; and likely western Africa as your link shows). Should it be a surprise that they resembled each other physically?


    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    Dont lack imagination. I am an Admin on an E1b1a group, recently a BHI came to spread his rhetoric. Before he was banned someone brought up this scripture.

    Ezekiel 29
    12. "So I will make the land of Egypt a desolation in the midst of desolated lands. And her cities, in the midst of cities that are laid waste, will be desolate forty years; and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations and disperse them among the lands."
    13 “‘Yet this is what the Sovereign Lord says: At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the nations where they were scattered. 14 I will bring them back from captivity and return them to Upper Egypt, the land of their ancestry. There they will be a lowly kingdom. 15 It will be the lowliest of kingdoms and will never again exalt itself above the other nations. I will make it so weak that it will never again rule over the nations.

    Ezekiel 30
    23. `I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations and disperse them among the lands.
    26. `When I scatter the Egyptians among the nations and disperse them among the lands, then they will know that I am the LORD.'

    Interesting.
    Yeah that Bible quote is very interesting. I think the Bible is underrated as a historical source. Besides it mentioning that Egyptians would be scattered, I find it interesting that it acknowledges they originated in Upper Egypt. When for so many years racists claimed the people were European invaders, the truth was sitting there in the Bible the whole time.

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  5. #43
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    Some Modern Egyptians as I posted on my Nubian thread do fit the ancient Egyptian depictions if you ask me.



    A good number of these people are not so phenotypically distant from these depictions-







    or look at this teacher chap



    He fits in my eyes and he's Modern Egyptian.

    -------


    I'll quote some stuff I posted on that other thread:

    "I will admit that when I look at most modern Egyptians and then look at this kind of artwork-


    - shared the artwork shared above-


    I don't exactly go "Oh, yeah. Looks like that Egyptian guy I used to go to High School with." but modern Egyptians have other bloodlines in them, doesn't change that they're probably the descendants of the people in those images, it just means some Romans, Hellenes, Nubians, Ottomans, Persians, Bedouin Arabs, Levantines, Imazighen and Brits got down with them here and there. At least that's how I see it Heck, some Egyptians I know admit to their mixed ancestry and tell me they have Turk or English in them, this one guy even told me he had Greek in him... Some of them even look it, like the one with English in him has blonde hair, blue eyes and very pale skin. Would fit right in around western or northern Europe."

    I'm not well versed in their genetics and not even that particularly interested in their history, ever since I was a kid- the Hellenes, Greeks and even my own Horn forebears and the Arabs intrigued me more than the Gyppos. Never quite gotten some people's fascination with them.

    But all in all, I personally think the ones in the cities and Lower Egypt are the clearly more admixed ones, I know Egyptians here in the UAE and like I said, some are forthcoming about their mixed origins- being part Turk, part Lebanese, part Syrian, part Saudi or whatever. I've encountered all of these examples and more. But all in all, they are the descendants of the Egyptians, at least a good number of them are. I can have a child with an Indian woman and then my son can marry a chinese woman and then his son can marry a Turkish woman, grandchild won't exactly look like me but he or she is still my descendant. 'Least that's how I see all of this, feel free to disprove and/or educate me.

    And how many Egyptians are on this site? I really want to see what an Egyptian wants to say about his or her forebears.
    Last edited by Awale; 2014-05-03 at 21:08.

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    Default Amarna Pharoahs And 19th Dynasty Pharoahs SSA Ancestry

    http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-d...2013-02-01.pdf

    Digest included autosomal STR analysis for King Tutankhamun and several other 18th Dynasty (Amarna Period) mummies. DNA results identified alleles that today are most frequent in Sub-Saharan Africa and found in Middle Eastern populations at lower frequencies.

    This suggests a Sub-Saharan African genetic component for the Amarna Period royal
    family,
    but does not exclude the possibility of additional ancestral components for those ancient
    individuals (such as West Asian or Mediterranean components that are found in Egypt today).


    Suprsingly The 19th Dynasty Mummies Have More Genetic Relations To Populations Of Southern And Eastern Africa Than The Horn Of Africa.The East African Components Found In These Mummies Could Indicate The Populations There Could Of Been More Closer To Egyptian Kingdom.

    http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-d...2013-02-01.pdf

    These results indicate that both Ramesses III and Unknown Man E (possibly his son Pentawer)
    shared an ancestral component with present day populations of Sub-Saharan Africa.

    In addition, these DNA match results in present day world regions might in part express
    population changes in Africa after the time of Ramesses III. In particular, DNA matches in present day
    populations of Southern Africa and the African Great Lakes might to some degree reflect genetic links
    with ancient populations (formerly living closer to New Kingdom Egypt)
    that have expanded southwards
    in the Nilotic and Bantu migrations of the past 3,000 years (see Figure 1).




    http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-d...2013-02-01.pdf



    Possibilities for Future Research: These results are based on the eight STR markers for which these
    pharaonic mummies have been tested, which allow a preliminary geographical analysis for these ancient
    individuals who lived in Egypt during the 12th century BCE.

    Future research that could confirm and expand on these findings could include SNP microarray
    based testing of Amarna and Ramesside mummies, which could potentially identify the percentages of
    Sub-Saharan African and other ancestral components for these ancient individuals.
    SNP based testing of
    other ancient individuals from the Bronze and Iron Age Mediterranean, Near East, and Africa could
    provide further insight about early population relationships and migrations since this period.

    King Tut and Amarna Pharaohs Show More Relation To Tropical East Africans of The Great Lakes Region.
    http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-d...2012-01-01.pdf

    Last of the Amarna Pharaohs: King Tut and His Relatives
    Historical Background
    Discussion: Average MLI scores in Table 1 indicate the STR profiles of the Amarna mummies would be
    most frequent in present day populations of several African regions: including the Southern African
    (average MLI 326.94), African Great Lakes (average MLI 323.76), and Tropical West African (average
    MLI 83.74) regions.

    These regional matches do not necessarily indicate an exclusively African ancestry for the
    Amarna pharaonic family. However, results indicate these ancient individuals inherited some alleles that
    today are more frequent in populations of Africa than in other parts of the world (such as D18S51=19 and
    D21S11=34).

    http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-d...2012-01-01.pdf



    Conclusion
    Results indicated the autosomal STR profiles of the Amarna period mummies were most frequent
    in modern populations in several parts of Africa. These results are based on the 8 STR markers for which
    these pharaonic mummies have been tested,
    which allow a preliminary geographical analysis for these
    individuals who lived in Egypt during the Amarna period of the 14th century BCE.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Awale View Post
    Some Modern Egyptians as I posted on my Nubian thread do fit the ancient Egyptian depictions if you ask me.

    What you got to understand there are many Egyptian paintings in which Egyptians drew Nubians almost like Egyptians with the same brownish red hue. People fail to realize that the Nubians were not one homogenous groups and composed of basically the North Sudanese and South Sudanese today.
    Last edited by Rebel; 2014-05-04 at 14:04.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    This is kind of old news around my way. Interested in seeing this boards analysis:



    http://www.mitosearch.org/

    See also:

    http://mtmanager.yonsei.ac.kr/search_sample.php

    Anyone?

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    Archaeological origins of Ancient Egyptians and Breakdown of there Bio-self consciousness.

    The Egyptians, hereafter referred to as Kamites, inherited from Khuiland and later Ethiopian ancestors (King, 1990; 1994) the M3NW concept. The M3NW concept was part of a philosophical system that witnessed a daily, 24-hour cycle of daylight and darkness, in which the sun was seen at sunset to enter the earth at M3NW(melanin), the Western Mountain of the Moon, and undergo a 12-hour nighttime passage through the all-Black domain of Amenta, passing through 12 gates and then emerging at dawn through an eastern M3NW(melanin) gate, at the Eastern Mountain of the Moon for the 12-hour passage of the sun during daylight.

    The extreme antiquity of millions of years of the M3NW root name for melanin is readily apparent. Consider the fact that the geographical place in Africa where the 24-hour day is equally divided into 12 hours of day and 12 hours of night is at the equator of the planet. Moreover, it is in the equatorial region that there are not only ancient African records of an Eastern Mountain of the Moon, BAKHU, Kenya's Mount Kilimanjaro (Ben Jochannan, 1972) and a Western Mountain on the Moon, MANA, the Renzori Mountain Range, (Halet). In fact, Ben Jochannan (1972) cited the records of the papyrus of Hunefer that stated that "we [Kamites] came from the Mountain of the Moon (Kilimanjaro Ethiopians)." Moreover, there are abundant records of Egyptian references to the Great Lakes region between the Eastern Mountain of the Moon and Western Mountain as the site of origin of River Hapi. This source of the Nile is the abode of the oldest Egyptian God, Bes, an Anu-Twa person from the Great Lakes region of Khuiland, with one group of Anu gathered around the Bakhu eastern mountains of the Moon and another group of Anu ancestors gathered around the Manu western mountain of the moon.
    Last edited by Mela-nun; 2014-07-14 at 16:32.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    See also :



    2 related mummies compared to CRS......
    Anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hominid View Post
    If ancient egyptians were really black it would suggest they are now extinct. Which does seem quite likely, since it was such an alien culture unlike anything around today, and also the modern egyptian is so incredibly useless at everything. I've always attributed this to civilisation deteriorating a population, but maybe they're just different people, Bedouin cockroaches who have scurried into the vacant ruins of ancient egypt.
    The more I have learned about the culture the more alien it seemed until I likewise learned more about African history as a whole. Now I would say there are descendants in every African country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Gaeta View Post
    Yeah that Bible quote is very interesting. I think the Bible is underrated as a historical source. Besides it mentioning that Egyptians would be scattered, I find it interesting that it acknowledges they originated in Upper Egypt. When for so many years racists claimed the people were European invaders, the truth was sitting there in the Bible the whole time.

    The Dogon, Egyptian and modern science creation myth is one and the same

    The Bible is a useful historical tool once you learn the perspective of the authors. They studied history and they could see how Egypt was breaking up first hand but they also had a strong Hebrew bias. I contend that Moses was in fact stolen from Egyptian myth. Picture Ahmose in the 19th dynasty. An incestuous savior patriarch who married a blue black woman and freed the slaves from a lower Egyptian Pharaoh.

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    Just wanted to bump this old thread.
    Was browsing through old data and this caught my eye.
    in the postglacial period comprising the Late Pleistocene and Early Holocene (a period that witnessed major changes in climate and vegetation6,10), comprising mainly the expansion of L2a throughout Eastern Africa, in the opposite direction of L0a haplogroup.
    It made me think back on this:
    Spoiler: 

    OK A-M13 L3f
    Ok A-M13 L0a1
    OK B-M150 L3d
    OK E-M2 L3e5
    OK E-M2 L2a1
    OK E-M123 L5a1
    OK E-M35 R0a
    OK E-M41 L2a1
    OK E-M41 L1b1a
    OK E-M75 M1
    OK E-M78 L4b
    OK J-M267 L3i
    OK R-M173 L2
    OK T-M184 L0a

    MK A-M13 L3x
    MK E-M75 L2a1
    MK E-M78 L3e5
    MK E-M78 M1a
    MK E-M96 L4a
    MK E-V6 L3
    MK B-M112 L0b


    5/14 (35%) of the OK lineages seem to be Sahelian / Trans Saharan transplants with the L2a lineages described above and the L3e5 also dated around 10kya in North Africa.
    2/7 (28%)
    The Sahelian migration of Eastern lineages and the L0a migration west accounts for 50% of OK lineages. I have argued this before but I think some of this L2a1 diversity will be E-M78 companion. Unlike Cruciani am placing the origin more Western than the Borders of "Western Desert (Egypt/Libya)." IMO I think the future will show the Sahelian lineages to be older than the Nile Egyptian ones. We already have E-V2009 (M78 sister lineage) which is older Western/Central Sahara. E-V1477 Western and Phylogenetically older. Time will tell.

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