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Thread: Mentally ill people aren’t killers. Angry people are.1973 days old

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    Default Mentally ill people aren’t killers. Angry people are.

    In the wake of a string of horrific mass shootings by people who in many cases had emotional problems, it has become fashionable to blame mental illness for violent crimes. It has even been suggested that these crimes justify not only banning people with a history of mental illness from buying weapons but also arming those without such diagnoses so that they may protect themselves from the dangerous mentally ill. This fundamentally misrepresents where the danger lies.

    Violence is not a product of mental illness. Nor is violence generally the action of ordinary, stable individuals who suddenly “break” and commit crimes of passion. Violent crimes are committed by violent people, those who do not have the skills to manage their anger. Most homicides are committed by people with a history of violence. Murderers are rarely ordinary, law-abiding citizens, and they are also rarely mentally ill. Violence is a product of compromised anger management skills.
    http://www.slate.com/articles/health...ss_murder.html

    I figured this article is good to post after the latest mass killing. Mental illness is often blamed, however, this stigmatizes people with mental illness, who are more likely to be victims of violence than to actually perpetrate it.

    More good points in the article:

    The attribution of violent crime to people diagnosed with mental illness is increasing stigmatization of the mentally ill while virtually no effort is being made to address the much broader cultural problem of anger management. This broader problem encompasses not just mass murders but violence toward children and spouses, rape, road rage, assault, and violent robberies. We are a culture awash in anger.
    We have sought scapegoats in minority cultures, racial groups, and now the mentally ill.
    This needs to stop. Many people with mental illness will tell you that the stigma is worse than the illness itself, and that it often impedes their recovery. People battling mental illness need compassion not to be approached with fear or to be shunned.

    What can be done to reduce stigma of mental illness?

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    I agree. Majority of mentally ill people do not kill out of their own will and state of mind. I'm sure in many countries mentally ill people are not charged for any crimes they commit? I know in Islamic teachings and law, if a person is mentally ill they cannot be prosecuted for their crimes.

    The only thing I can think of reducing the stigma of mental illness, is raising awareness. Teach children, parents but also the population at large.

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    As suggested, shunning the mentally ill impedes recovery. It likely makes the illness worse, for the sufferer must climb over a additional emotional barrier in order to be able to devote all their energies to the challenge they have. Besides, people simply do not choose to be mentally ill: it just happens. That's just holding the person responsible for a matter they have no control over; not to mention victim-blaming.

    PS: even the word "victim" is stigmatized, as though that victim (in the original sense) is solely at fault. If the blamer is all about personal responsibility, then at what point does the blamer and mainstream society take responsibility for intensifying / prolonging the suffering of the victim?
    Last edited by filrabat; 2014-05-28 at 02:03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonRouge View Post
    What can be done to reduce stigma of mental illness?
    Euthanasia.

    It's not an angry people problem. There are angry people of every race, religion, gender, and age group. Grannies aren't going on killing spree. Mentally ill young men are, usually of the white variety.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajuran View Post
    I agree. Majority of mentally ill people do not kill out of their own will and state of mind. I'm sure in many countries mentally ill people are not charged for any crimes they commit? I know in Islamic teachings and law, if a person is mentally ill they cannot be prosecuted for their crimes.

    The only thing I can think of reducing the stigma of mental illness, is raising awareness. Teach children, parents but also the population at large.
    Mentally ill people rarely commit crimes to begin with. They're more likely to be the victim of crime since criminals will prey on them by pretending to be a supportive person who understands. The three types of abuse that people suffering from mental illness are victims of most commonly are physical, sexual, and financial. I myself was victim of the last one, going through depression, someone stole thousands of dollars from me while pretending to be a supportive person. But she left her Netflix account logged in on my PS3 so I now have her credit card number, so revenge is mine.

    People with mental illness are often more prone to police brutality, because stigma perpetuated by the media paints them as violent so cops are quick to pull out their guns/tasers/nightsticks. A kid with mental illness was shot dead in Toronto not too long ago, another kid with schizophrenia was shot dead in front of his parents, and the parents contacted police thinking they could help their son!!! Because of stigma, people don't believe them and they get stomped on as a result.

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    A few reasons I think this article is on point about mass shootings in the US:

    1. Mental health is worse in Canada than the US, we don't have near the mass shootings. We have gun control, yes, but I don't think that has much to do with it because Canada is still a gun-loving country. A country of 32 million with 7 million guns, that's about 1/4 of the population... I think that is the same for the USA too. Mental health in Canada's health care system is like what Iraq and Afghanistan veterans who came home with PTSD have to deal with when using the Department of Veteran Affairs, they just throw pills at you, no therapy. There is a booming business of private psychiatrists and therapists as a result, and they charge up to $300 per hour, so if you're poor and have no insurance, you're fucked.

    2. Blaming mental illness stigmatizes the mentally ill, who are more likely to be VICTIMS of violence than to commit violence

    This article I think hits the nail on the head. From my observations as a foreigner who travelled in the US and lived there for some time, and interacting with Americans online, the US is an angry country. Actually in Canada most mass shootings we did have happened in Quebec, which is an angry province from the standpoint of someone not from there. I have tons of relatives from Quebec also, they have anger issues too. Watch, if the Canadiens get eliminated from the Stanley Cup Playoffs tonight or Saturday, there will be violence in Montreal.
    Last edited by DragonRouge; 2014-05-29 at 12:19.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alfieb View Post
    Euthanasia.

    It's not an angry people problem. There are angry people of every race, religion, gender, and age group. Grannies aren't going on killing spree. Mentally ill young men are, usually of the white variety.

    You are such an ignoramus it is not even funny. I'm glad you ignored me but I am going to reply to you, anyway, so other people can such just how ignorant you are. First of all calling for euthansia is not libertarian , which you claim to be, unless it is voluntary (you won't find many volunteers). Also, the fact that you are innumerate (a fact I have tried to help you with, in the past, with book recommendations) comes through here. Someone, like you, who sucks at math, doesn't comprehend totally what it means when statistics show that the mentally ill are more likely to be victims of violence rather than the perpetrators of it. You just buy into the media hype because you are ignorant. Lastly Euthanasia doesn't ake sense because over 30 studies have linked mental illness with above average intelligence. So smarter people are more likely to be mentally ill.
    Last edited by Angevin; 2014-05-30 at 14:31.
    "Religion is the masterpiece of the art of animal training, for it trains people as to how they shall think." --Arthur Schopenhauer

    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ---Arthur Schopenhauer

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    ^^ Exactly
    And what if someone with depression and is feeling suicidal and came across that post?

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    Hopefully they would kill themselves and not others, but that's the whole point of the thread...

    It's not about angry people, it's about mentally ill people. An angry wife will kill her cheating husband. A crazy person will burn his house down. You and Angevin may be incapable of murder, but that doesn't mean that your fellow deranged people elsewhere are not. Fortunately, we're approaching a time where science will allow expectant mothers to know that their child is going to be a basketcase and act before it's too late.

    I'm generally opposed to abortion-on-demand, but if your kid is going to be severely autistic or have down syndrome or some other debilitating mental illness, it's better for you and society to dispose of it before it's too late.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alfieb View Post
    Hopefully they would kill themselves and not others, but that's the whole point of the thread...

    It's not about angry people, it's about mentally ill people. An angry wife will kill her cheating husband. A crazy person will burn his house down. You and Angevin may be incapable of murder, but that doesn't mean that your fellow deranged people elsewhere are not.
    You are really missing the bigger picture here. Your severe case of innumeracy leaves you susceptible to a warped view thanks to media sensationalism. THE VAST MAJORITY of mentally ill people are not violent and do not go on killing sprees. Actually, angry young black men are more likely to be violent than the mentally ill (in aggregate gross numbers they kill more people too despite the other incidences being 'mass' murders) in general and and I don't see you calling for the genocide/euthanasia of black men.

    I know you are resistant to reading any book I recommend (since you don't like me) but you really need to read the book Inummeracy by John Allen Paulos :

    http://tinyurl.com/k7lw6az

    Then you would stop embarassing yourself with your stunning myopic ignorance


    Quote Originally Posted by Alfieb
    Fortunately, we're approaching a time where science will allow expectant mothers to know that their child is going to be a basketcase and act before it's too late.

    I'm generally opposed to abortion-on-demand, but if your kid is going to be severely autistic or have down syndrome or some other debilitating mental illness, it's better for you and society to dispose of it before it's too late.

    Oh, yeah, so how would that work with schizophrenia for instance ? Lets say there is a mother who finds out her fetus carries the DTNBP1 gene. The DTNBP1 gene is associated with higher cognition and intelligence. It is also associated with a greater susceptibility to schizophrenia. So does the mother then abort the fetus ? Keep in mind that just because one has the gene does not mean one will develop schizophrenia since environment etc.. plays a role too. So if we aborted the fetuses with these genes we would decrease the intelligence of the population over time.
    Last edited by Angevin; 2014-05-30 at 19:42.
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    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ---Arthur Schopenhauer

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