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    Default Ancient Egyptians = Caucasoids

    Here's an interesting study, arguing that the ancient Egyptians (both Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt) were genetically Caucasoids. Abstract:
    The biological affinities of the ancient Egyptians were tested against their neighbors and selected prehistoric groups as well as against samples representing the major geographic population clusters of the world. Two dozen craniofacial measurements were taken on each individual used. The raw measurements were converted into C scores and used to produce Euclidean distance dendrograms. The measurements were principally of adaptively trivial traits that display patterns of regional similarities based solely on genetic relationships. The Predynastic of Upper Egypt and the Late Dynastic of Lower Egypt are more closely related to each other than to any other population. As a whole, they show ties with the European Neolithic, North Africa, modern Europe, and, more remotely, India, but not at all with sub-Saharan Africa, eastern Asia, Oceania, or the New World. Adjacent people in the Nile valley show similarities in trivial traits in an unbroken series from the delta in the north southward through Nubia and all the way to Somalia at the equator. At the same time, the gradient in skin color and body proportions suggests long-term adaptive response to selective forces appropriate to the latitude where they occur. An assessment of race is as useless as it is impossible. Neither clines nor clusters alone suffice to deal with the biological nature of a widely distributed population. Both must be used. We conclude that the Egyptians have been in place since back in the Pleistocene and have been largely unaffected by either invasions or migrations. As others have noted, Egyptians are Egyptians, and they were so in the past as well. 1993 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
    Source: Brace et al. 1993,
    Clines and clusters versus “Race”: a test in ancient Egypt and the case of a death on the Nile

    I'd like to hear from all the Afrocentrists with their usual insinuations that the ancient Egyptians were of Negroid stock, your opinion on this study. Me personally, I seriously doubt the original ancient Egyptians (you know, those who were responsible for the actual Egyptian civilisation) were of Negroid race. But surely, some influx of Negroids occurred in Upper Egypt at various times:
    Source: Eugen Strouhal, The Journal of African History, Vol. 12, No. 1 (1971), pp. 1-9, Evidence of the Early Penetration of Negroes into Prehistoric Egypt, http://www.jstor.org/pss/180563

    Also related and worth reading:

    Genetical Change in Ancient Egypt: http://www.jstor.org/pss/2799339

    The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1325007

    Forensic Misclassification of Ancient Nubian Crania: Implications for Assumptions about Human Variation: http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/428792
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2009-11-05 at 11:37.
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    Quoted for truth:
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    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
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    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries



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    Default

    Keita (2008) - Temporal Variation in Phenetic Affinity of Early Upper Egyptian Male Cranial Series



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    Quote Originally Posted by Azvarohi View Post
    Keita (2008) - Temporal Variation in Phenetic Affinity of Early Upper Egyptian Male Cranial Series
    Check this:
    However, all 15 samples exhibit morphologically simple, massreduced dentitions that are similar to those in populations from greater North Africa (Irish, 1993, 1998ac, 2000) and, to a lesser extent, western Asia and Europe (Turner, 1985a; Turner and Markowitz, 1990; Roler, 1992; Lipschultz, 1996; Irish, 1998a). Similar craniofacial measurements among samples from these regions were reported as well (Brace et al., 1993).

    ...

    Did Egyptians in the second half of the dynastic period become biologically distinct from those in the first? Ideally, more dynastic samples than those from Abydos, Thebes, Qurneh, Tarkhan, Saqqara, Lisht, and Giza should be compared to address such a broad question. Yet excluding the Lisht and perhaps Saqqara outliers, it appears that overall dental homogeneity among these samples would argue against such a possibility (Table 4; Figs. 2, 3, 5). Specifically, an inspection of MMD values reveals no evidence of increasing phenetic distance
    between samples from the first and second halves of this almost 3,000-year-long period. For example, phenetic distances between FirstSecond Dynasty Abydos and samples from Fourth Dynasty Saqqara (MMD 0.050), 1112th Dynasty Thebes (0.000), 12th Dynasty Lisht (0.072), 19th Dynasty Qurneh (0.053), and 26th30th Dynasty Giza (0.027) do not exhibit a directional increase through time. Moreover, there is no conspicuous correlation between MMD and geographic distances within and between Upper and Lower Egypt. A similar pattern is evident when comparing First Dynasty Tarkhan to these same five Old Kingdom through Late Dynastic samples. All display moderate frequencies of the nine influential traits identified by CA, and a largely concordant occurrence of, and trends across, the remaining traits (Table 2). Thus, despite increasing foreign influence after the Second Intermediate Period, not only did Egyptian culture remain intact (Lloyd, 2000a), but the people themselves, as represented by the dental samples, appear biologically constant as well. These findings coincide with those of Brace et al. (1993, p. 1), who stated that the Egyptians were largely unaffected by either invasions or migrations, and do not support suggestions of increased diversity due to infiltration of outside physical elements.

    Did Egyptians of the Ptolemaic and Roman periods differ significantly from their dynastic antecedents? Again, more postdynastic samples would prove useful in answering this broad question. Moreover, any foreign genetic influence on the indigenous populace likely diminished relative to the distance upriver. However, as it stands, the lone Greek Egyptian (GEG) sample from Lower Egypt significantly differs from all but the small Roman-period Kharga sample (Table 4). In fact, it was shown to be a major outlier that is divergent from all others (Figs. 2, 3, 5). The Greek Egyptians exhibit the lowest frequencies of UM1 cusp 5, three-rooted UM2, fivecusped LM2, and two-rooted LM2, along with a high incidence of UM3 absence, among others (Table 2). This trait combination is reminiscent of that in Europeans and western Asians (Turner, 1985a; Turner and Markowitz, 1990; Roler, 1992; Lipschultz, 1996; Irish, 1998a). Thus, if the present heterogeneous sample is at all representative of peoples during Ptolemaic times, it may suggest some measure of foreign admixture, at least in Lower Egypt near Saqqara and Manfalut. Another possibility is that the sample consists of actual Greeks. Although their total number was probably low (Peacock, 2000), Greek administrators and others were present in Lower Egypt. Future comparisons to actual Greek specimens will help verify this possibility.

    Lastly, the Roman-period specimens are much more closely akin to the seven dynastic samples. Kharga and especially Hawara are most similar, based on their trait concordance (Table 2), low and insignificant MMDs (Table 4), and positions within or near the cluster of 11 or so samples (Fig. 2). El Hesa is more divergent (Figs. 2, 3, 5); this divergence was shown to be driven by several extreme trait frequencies, including very high UI2 interruption groove and UM3 absence, and very low UM1 Carabellis trait. As above, the first two traits are common in Europeans and western Asians; the latter is rare in these areas, as well as greater North Africa (Irish, 1993, 1997). Like the Greeks, the Romans did not migrate to Lower and especially Upper Egypt in large numbers (Peacock, 2000). As such, the distinctive trait frequencies of El Hesa were probably not due to Roman gene flow. There is no evidence that Kharga and Hawara received such influence. Thus the results, at least for these samples, do not support significant biological differentiation in the Egyptians of this time relative to their dynastic predecessors.
    Source: Joel D. Irish, Department of Anthropology, University of Alaska Fairbanks, Alaska, Who Were the Ancient Egyptians? Dental Affinities Among Neolithic Through Postdynastic Peoples: http://wysinger.homestead.com/who_were_egyptian.pdf
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries



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    Akhenaten does not appear Caucasoid but rather more like Aethiopid. Just look at he's lips, eyes, long head and he's extremely elongated body that surpass that of Caucasoid parameters.

    Wadaad also has a profile alike to Akhenatens



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    Maybe interesing for some of you:
    http://ariets.wordpress.com/2009/01/...e-morton-1844/



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    Quote Originally Posted by Excel View Post
    Akhenaten does not appear Caucasoid but rather more like Aethiopid. Just look at he's lips, eyes, long head and he's extremely elongated body that surpass that of Caucasoid parameters.

    Wadaad also has a profile alike to Akhenatens
    That's really not a good image of how the actual Akhenaten looked like. He's depicted as extremely dolichocephalic on this statue. Menkaura and his queen Khamerernebty II, their facial features are clearly Caucasoid, you can't mistake them for something else:



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menkaura
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khamerernebty_II
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    “A wise man makes his own decisions; an ignorant man follows public opinion.” ― Chinese proverb

    “Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.” ― H. L. Mencken

    “The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.” ― Socrates

    “Damnant quod non intelligunt.” ― Latin proverb

    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries



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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    That's really not a good image of how the actual Akhenaten looked like.
    Then please feel free to show us how he really looked like

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Menkaura and his queen Khamerernebty II, their facial features are clearly Caucasoid, you can't mistake them for something else:
    Are you really so sure abt that, again Menkaura looks aethiopid



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    I think egyptians were mixed with neighbouring populations, blacks included, but the bulk of their ethnic background was caucasoid. As today is.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Excel View Post
    Then please feel free to show us how he really looked like
    I'm just saying, it's not a good image. His face is more elongated than my feet on that statue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excel View Post
    Are you really so sure abt that, again Menkaura looks aethiopid
    "thiopid" isn't "Negroid" anyway, and no, he didn't look thiopid. More like, Mediterranoid or perhaps west Asian. How do you explain that both he and his queen had straight hair? Yeah sure, some thiopids have straight hair, but it's more an exception rather than the norm. So, it doesn't exactly speak in favour of Afrocentrist theories.

    Moreover, how do you explain the fact that a large segment of Egypt's current population, is West Eurasian rather than sub-Saharan African? For the theories of Afrocentrism to be valid, you have to explain how exactly Egypt's Caucasoid population displaced all the Negroes. And no, modern Egyptians are not descended from Arabs:
    Caucasians include those with ancestry in Europe and West Asia, including the Indian subcontinent and Middle East; North Africans typically also are included in this group as their ancestry derives largely from the Middle East rather than sub-Saharan Africa.
    Source: http://genomebiology.com/2002/3/7/comment/2007
    The peoples of the Egyptian and northern Sudanese Nile valley, and
    supra-Saharan Africa now speak Arabic in the main but, as noted, this
    largely represents language shift. Ancient Egyptian is Afroasiatic, and current
    inhabitants of the Nile valley should be understood as being in the
    main, although not wholly, descendants of the pre-neolithic regional
    inhabitants
    , although this apparently varies by geography as indicated by
    the frequency of Near Eastern haplotypes/lineages (Table 1, Lucotte and
    Mercier 2003a, Manni et al. 2002, Cruciani 2002).

    ...

    Early neolithic levels in northern Egypt contain the Levantine domesticates,
    and show some influence in material culture as well (Kobusiewicz
    1992). Ovacaprines appear in the western desert before the Nile valley
    proper (Wendorf and Schild 2001). However, it is significant that the
    ancient Egyptian words for the major Near Eastern domesticatessheep,
    goat, barley, and wheatare not loans from either Semitic, Sumerian, or
    Indo-European. This argues against a mass settler colonization (at
    replacement levels) of the Nile valley from the Near East at this time. This
    is in contrast with some words for domesticates in some early Semitic languages,
    which are likely Sumerian loan words
    (Diakonoff 1981).

    ...

    There was no wholesale population
    replacement. This is not especially surprising because there is no evidence
    that the earliest Arabic-speakers, who came as teachers of Islam, intended
    to replace the indigenous populations biologically.
    Source: http://muse.jhu.edu/demo/history_in_.../32.1keita.pdf

    So, if your stance is that the ancient Egyptians were Negroids, then you have a whole lot of explaining to do in terms of demic diffusion and gene replacement. Also, please explain why it is so that the ancient Egyptians did not have stereotypical Negroid facial traits? Akhenaten didn't exactly have a broad nose.
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries



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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    I'm just saying, it's not a good image. His face is more elongated than my feet on that statue.
    Would such argument also apply to this lady.



    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    "thiopid" isn't "Negroid"
    Oh yes they are


    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    and no, he didn't look thiopid. More like, Mediterranoid or perhaps west Asian. How do you explain that both he and his queen had straight hair? Yeah sure, some thiopids have straight hair
    You just answered your own question


    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Moreover, how do you explain the fact that a large segment of Egypt's current population, is West Eurasian rather than sub-Saharan African?
    Must i give a list of all the Asiatic and European peoples that colonised Egypt for the past 2, 000 years?


    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Also, please explain why it is so that the ancient Egyptians did not have stereotypical Negroid facial traits? Akhenaten didn't exactly have a broad nose.
    Well Akhenaten is Aethiopid rather than say Sudanid, negroids come in all shapes and sizes you know.



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