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Thread: Am I Jewish?1819 days old

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    Default Am I Jewish?

    Some times people ask me if I am foreign. For fun (and out of curiosity, as I really didn't care about my ethnicity until my mysterious appearance was noted) I traced back my family ancestry and found that old relatives had Hebrew names such as Adiah, Hezekiah, Eljah, etc despite the surname being English, that I thought were strange given that I assumed we were of European heritage. I looked at a few old pics of family relatives and some to my surprise look very semitic (notably the hair, eyes, mouth and ears. I have the nose shape). This was confirmed when I discovered a Jewish family crest ascribed to our family name (1900).

    Looking at my family and myself, I thought perhaps I was of an ethnicity my mother didn't tell me about because nobody in Europe has such features. I (and my mother, grandmother, and some living relatives) have some features which are associated with Israelites also. I'm not sure what % I am but according to some I look about 90% Jewish.

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    Only a comprehensive genetic test can determine if you have significant Jewish ancestry. Converting to Judaism doesn't really count.

    Physical Anthropology ---> Genealogy

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    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Acquisitorz (2014-08-26), aregint (2014-08-30), randomguy1235 (2014-08-26), Semitic Duwa (2014-08-25)

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    Looks aren't enough to tell, as Elias said you'd need to test in order to uncover Jewish ancestry.

    Either that or a solid paper trail.

    I'm a staunch critic of conversion and intermarriage in general, as far as I'm concerned someone less than 25% or 1/4th Jewish has very little to do with the Jewish people (and I'm being extremely lenient here, as I'm discarding descent laws and traditional tribal affiliation which are a big part of the answer to the "Who is a Jew?" question).


    Quote Originally Posted by MnM View Post
    Morocco is a western lapdog.
    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    Those Bronze Age samples are just red herrings to distract you from the actual arrivals of populations with Semitic ancestry. Don’t take the bait by focusing on the wrong samples, lol. He is passing off Bronze Age Levantines with no evidence of strong predynastic input, as “Semites“. This way, he can flip it around and say Proto-Semitic speakers and predynastics were more or less identical to the Bronze Age Levantines sampled so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    @Semitic Duwa

    Wonder what the resident Proto-Semite has to say about this. I thought unmixed Egyptians were supposed to be Abusir with less/zero Chl?

    In your view, does this prove you wrong, or is it just a coincidence () that M1 is absent in one of the three subsamples from Abusir, and rare overall?

    And don’t change your signature now, please. I’m looking forward to you looking more and more incompetent as more aDNA is published. Wish there was a way to speed this up. But the extra wait and seeing you with your pants down every day, kinda has its own appeal, too.

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    Looks and ancestry dosnt always correspond, Ive been suspected of being a Jew by a good number of Palestinians, but i have little or no Jewish ancestry, so take a DNA test if you want to figure it out..Conversion to Judaism is frowned upon by many, and if you attempt it most rabbis will try to dissuade you..
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    It is possible that you're family were followers of Judaism and not ethnic Jews. Either way you could be an ethnic Jew or you could hail from a family that followed Judaism as a religion.

    Also OP there are many debates of who is a ethnic Jews. But I guess anybody that speaks Hebrew and has Semitic genetic ancestry then they are most like ethnic Jew. Like others said, genetic testing is you safe bet.

    If you look hairy, dark-featured and have dark skin complexion and can fit in well with the rest of the Semitic Middle Easterners then I bet you are a real ethnic Jew from the ancient Canaan/Israel/Palestine region. The light featured Jews are not really the best presentation of real ethnic Jews. They are rather a population with admixture or a population of converts.











    Real ethnic Jews just look like real ethnic Arabs (excluding Arabized Arabs of North Africa/ Parts of Syria/Northern Iraq/Parts of Lebanon).
    Last edited by Ajuran; 2014-08-25 at 23:43.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    most rabbis will try to dissuade you..
    The tradition consists in turning down a potential convert 3 times... Nowadays, they make things even harder by adding fees and the threat of putting an end to the conversion process if the convert fails to observe mitzvot.

    That being said, most rabbis will be willing to ease the process if you have a non-negligible amount of Jewish ancestry (they have a special category for that: Zera3 Israel).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajuran View Post
    The light featured Jews are not really the best presentation of real ethnic Jews. They are rather a population with admixture or a population of converts.

    [...]

    Real ethnic Jews just look like real ethnic Arabs (excluding Arabized Arabs of North Africa/ Parts of Syria/Northern Iraq/Parts of Lebanon).
    Yeah... Well not really, no.
    I suggest you get up to date with what has been established by more than a decade of research (both peer-reviewed and 3rd party-based) in population genetics instead of producing blanket statements such as "light-skinned Jews aren't real Jews".
    Last edited by Semitic Duwa; 2014-08-25 at 23:59.


    Quote Originally Posted by MnM View Post
    Morocco is a western lapdog.
    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    Those Bronze Age samples are just red herrings to distract you from the actual arrivals of populations with Semitic ancestry. Don’t take the bait by focusing on the wrong samples, lol. He is passing off Bronze Age Levantines with no evidence of strong predynastic input, as “Semites“. This way, he can flip it around and say Proto-Semitic speakers and predynastics were more or less identical to the Bronze Age Levantines sampled so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    @Semitic Duwa

    Wonder what the resident Proto-Semite has to say about this. I thought unmixed Egyptians were supposed to be Abusir with less/zero Chl?

    In your view, does this prove you wrong, or is it just a coincidence () that M1 is absent in one of the three subsamples from Abusir, and rare overall?

    And don’t change your signature now, please. I’m looking forward to you looking more and more incompetent as more aDNA is published. Wish there was a way to speed this up. But the extra wait and seeing you with your pants down every day, kinda has its own appeal, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Semitic Duwa View Post
    The tradition consists in turning down a potential convert 3 times... Nowadays, they make things even harder by adding fees and the threat of putting an end to the conversion process if the convert fails to observe mitzvot.

    That being said, most rabbis will be willing to ease the process if you have a non-negligible amount of Jewish ancestry (they have a special category for that: Zera3 Israel).
    Worth noting that there are several branches of Judaism and that some are more open to conversion than others, but Israel only recognize orthodox Judaism last i checked..
    I once tried thinking for an entire day, but I found it less valuable than one moment of study. I once tried standing up on my toes to see far out in the distance, but I found that I could see much farther by climbing to a high place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    Worth noting that there are several branches of Judaism and that some are more open to conversion than others, but Israel only recognize orthodox Judaism last i checked..
    True, but as you said the rabbinate is an orthodox stronghold.
    Mind you, the Karaites have their own rabbinate, but conversion is just as hard (not the process itself, I mean that many karaites will never recognise a convert as part of the tribe).


    Quote Originally Posted by MnM View Post
    Morocco is a western lapdog.
    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    Those Bronze Age samples are just red herrings to distract you from the actual arrivals of populations with Semitic ancestry. Don’t take the bait by focusing on the wrong samples, lol. He is passing off Bronze Age Levantines with no evidence of strong predynastic input, as “Semites“. This way, he can flip it around and say Proto-Semitic speakers and predynastics were more or less identical to the Bronze Age Levantines sampled so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    @Semitic Duwa

    Wonder what the resident Proto-Semite has to say about this. I thought unmixed Egyptians were supposed to be Abusir with less/zero Chl?

    In your view, does this prove you wrong, or is it just a coincidence () that M1 is absent in one of the three subsamples from Abusir, and rare overall?

    And don’t change your signature now, please. I’m looking forward to you looking more and more incompetent as more aDNA is published. Wish there was a way to speed this up. But the extra wait and seeing you with your pants down every day, kinda has its own appeal, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Semitic Duwa View Post
    True, but as you said the rabbinate is an orthodox stronghold.
    Mind you, the Karaites have their own rabbinate, but conversion is just as hard (not the process itself, I mean that many karaites will never recognise a convert as part of the tribe).
    The most open branches are likely those found in America (i actually didnt mean Karaites ect, but religious branches), which are very liberal and dont follow most of the stricter "tribal" rules of orthodox Judaisms....

    Such as Reform Judiams ect..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relatio...ious_movements
    I once tried thinking for an entire day, but I found it less valuable than one moment of study. I once tried standing up on my toes to see far out in the distance, but I found that I could see much farther by climbing to a high place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    The most open branches are likely those found in America (i actually didnt mean Karaites ect, but religious branches), which are very liberal and dont follow most of the stricter "tribal" rules of orthodox Judaisms....

    Such as Reform Judiams ect..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relatio...ious_movements
    You're actually referring to rabbinical branches, such as the Reform & Massorti/Conservative movements.
    Orthodox is the most extreme form of rabbinical Judaism, and paradoxically it is the less traditional one as well (the most traditional is the Massorti movement, ["massoret" is the Hebrew word for "tradition", so "massorti" simply means "traditional"]).
    Orthodox Jewry is a very complex and bizarre world, there's a bit of everything everywhere. But the constant is that they're usually non-Zionist (if not outright anti-Zionist), have no sense of humour and adopt extreme stances in every endeavour.

    Karaite Judaism, which happens to be a non-rabbinical branch of Judaism (the main difference is that the Karaites reject Oral Law) is actually far more "tribal" than Orthodox Judaism, it's very similar to Samaritanism in a sense though it is Judaism.
    Last edited by Semitic Duwa; 2014-08-26 at 16:53.


    Quote Originally Posted by MnM View Post
    Morocco is a western lapdog.
    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    Those Bronze Age samples are just red herrings to distract you from the actual arrivals of populations with Semitic ancestry. Don’t take the bait by focusing on the wrong samples, lol. He is passing off Bronze Age Levantines with no evidence of strong predynastic input, as “Semites“. This way, he can flip it around and say Proto-Semitic speakers and predynastics were more or less identical to the Bronze Age Levantines sampled so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    @Semitic Duwa

    Wonder what the resident Proto-Semite has to say about this. I thought unmixed Egyptians were supposed to be Abusir with less/zero Chl?

    In your view, does this prove you wrong, or is it just a coincidence () that M1 is absent in one of the three subsamples from Abusir, and rare overall?

    And don’t change your signature now, please. I’m looking forward to you looking more and more incompetent as more aDNA is published. Wish there was a way to speed this up. But the extra wait and seeing you with your pants down every day, kinda has its own appeal, too.

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