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Thread: Influence of Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Mona Walter in the Somali diaspora?1725 days old

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    Default Influence of Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Mona Walter in the Somali diaspora?

    I don't start threads often in this section, but since we have a couple of Somali members, I figured this could be an interesting discussion.

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a notable Somali woman who happens to be critical of Islam and has left Islam. In recent years, there are other Somalis like Ayaan I've noticed, such as Mona Walter in Sweden:

    I don't respect islam.:


    I can't help but feel she's taken after Ayaan. Somalis like Ayaan and Mona are good people, but these two women aren't representative of most Somalis, and in general Somalis are very by the book Islamic, with hijab, burqa and so on. Ayaan left Islam and became an atheist, and Mona converted to Christianity. I'm sure they're looked down upon by many Somali Muslims as assimilated sell-outs and so on, but what I wonder is how influential and admired Ayaan and Mona are in the Somali community?

    I have a feeling we're gonna see a lot more Somalis like these two brave and honest Somali women in the coming years.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2015-01-28 at 23:14.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliyahu Brocard
    I'm sure they're looked down upon by many Somali Muslims as assimilated sell-outs and so on, but what I wonder is how influential and admired Ayaan and Mona are in the Somali community?
    Nobody knows who this Mona is, 'least I sure as shit didn't and no Somali probably cares and if they do they likely "look down upon her" as you said.

    Ayaan 7irsi 3ali is known though, I was told about her by a religious cousin when we were kids and all he said was "Hah, all Somalis want her dead.". He wasn't 100% wrong, most Somalis are Muslims and most even if they don't want her dead don't like Ayaan at all. They have no traction among Somalis and I highly doubt either of them will ever lead some kind of "reform" or change in the "Somali community".

    If true change is to come it needs to come in the form of a slick, much more intelligent leader with better speaking skills & charisma than either of them. Ayaan is only really famous for being an apostate, she has no real charisma, no real speaking capabilities (even her English is meh) and I can't see her leading any kind of community changing movement, ever... It would be cool if someone who was already accomplished and respected tried to do something like this, not some Christian convert nobody's heard about or some girl who's only real claim to fame is giving up Islam.

    Spoiler: 
    This Mona Walter doesn't look Somali (she looks Horner but idk, I'm just going anthrotard here but yeah) and I wonder how the hell she's a Christian. Converted in Sweden?

    Don't get her love for Christianity though. She talks almost like she as a Somali has a history with Christianity... Somalia converted quietly through trade, even the bloody Chinese noted that the Jarabs couldn't conquer our Northern coast specifically (Bilad Al-Barbar) and we sure as fuck weren't Christians (at least most of us) before this conversion.
    Last edited by Awale; 2015-01-28 at 23:38.

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    @ Elias

    There has been an increase of Somali atheist in the last couple of years and some of them were brave enough to put themselves on the spotlight via the mainstream media or social media. Most of them tend to be women, which I find very intriguing. Majority of those ''out of the closet'' Somali atheist live in the Western World therefore are not afraid of repercussion from Muslims Somalis, for the exception of Ayaan Hirsi who is hated by all Muslims regardless of their ethnicities because of the submission film.

    There is another Somali atheist, that recently starred in the Western Media whom is married to a Jewish lawyer. Her name is Amal Farah, from the UK. She is very active on twitter.


    Then we have another group of Somalis that have converted to Christianity, the only vocal one of them is Mona Walter. However there is many of them on the social media and they are very active.

    Then we have Somalis authors such as Diriye Osman who recently won Polari First Book prize.


    He is a gay activist and ironically is supported by other Muslim Somali authors such as Nadifa Mohamed and then we have-------

    Lesbian Somali author Amal Aden who is Muslim but yet a lesbian activist.


    So there is a large magnitude of diverse Somalis that are pioneering for atheism, secularism, modernity, Christianity and LGBT rights through their profession or other means such as social social media or wider media in general.

    Do they have influence on Somali diaspora? Mostly indirectly. They mostly have indirect influence on the Somali youth.

    There is rare case of violent incident caused by atheist Somali towards a Muslim Somali boy in Kansas late last year. The same guy used to harass Somali Muslims, such as writing ''Quran is worse than Ebola'' on the back of his car.


    So in general atheist Somalis or non-Muslim Somalis are very vocal and active and their presences and existences are well-known by the wider Somali community in the diaspora. Most Muslim Somalis tend to ignore them, specially the older generation.

    ---SAMATAR



    @ Awale

    You probably didn't hear of Mona Walter because you live in the Middle East. But she is well-known by quite a lot of Somalis in the Western World, especially young generation Somalis that have access to the internet. Somalis tend to be very active on the social media. We are a nation of poets and we enjoy talking a lot and on the other hand Somalia has the best telecommunication system in the whole of Africa, so it isn't surprising. I come across Mona Walter via Facebook and some article's of her from Swedish new site's that were spread around Somali websites and forums. She debates a lot with Somali Muslims on Facebook and recently made a video on youtube for Somali Imams. There were some Somali Imam's that made a response video to her on facebook.

    ----SAMATAR

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samatar View Post
    You probably didn't hear of Mona Walter because you live in the Middle East. But she is well-known by quite a lot of Somalis in the Western World, especially young generation Somalis that have access to the internet. Somalis tend to be very active on the social media. We are a nation of poets and we enjoy talking a lot and on the other hand Somalia has the best telecommunication system in the whole of Africa, so it isn't surprising.
    Good to know... And I know about the telecommunications. My pops started it... Netco (he's Isma3il 7aji 3abdi), first real big telecommunications company in Somalia belonged to him. It's gone now though. But lol, don't be over dramatic with the poet stuff. Most young Somalis are not that different from other young kids. Our ancestors being hip to poetry has little input in how they behave on social media.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samatar
    I come across Mona Walter via Facebook and some article's of her from Swedish new site's that were spread around Somali websites and forums. She debates a lot with Somali Muslims on Facebook and recently made a video on youtube for Somali Imams. There were some Somali Imam's that made a response video to her on facebook.
    Could you share their response video and the one she sent them? I've seen her on FB. Some of her posts are in what I assume is Swedish so I wasn't following much.

    And atheism is growing among Somalis likely naturally at least it is among the ones I know... It's similar with MENAs as I shared with you once on the Charlie Hebdo thread and with others in the random chat thread that new members can't see. It often has little to do with people like Ayaan.
    Last edited by Awale; 2015-01-29 at 00:51.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Awale View Post
    Good to know... And I know about the telecommunications. My pops started it... Netco (he's Isma3il 7aji 3abdi), first real big telecommunications company in Somalia belonged to him. It's gone now though. But lol, don't be over dramatic with the poet stuff. Most young Somalis are not that different from other young kids. Our ancestors being hip to poetry has little input in how they behave on social media.
    By that I meant, Somalis are totally oral people and love to talk; very opinionated and playful with words. The social media/telecommunication is a match made in heaven for them.


    Here is a response video




    His response is really weak.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Samatar
    There is rare case of violent incident caused by atheist Somali towards a Muslim Somali boy in Kansas late last year. The same guy used to harass Somali Muslims, such as writing ''Quran is worse than Ebola'' on the back of his car.
    He killed a kid? Wow... I don't care how much this guy despised Islam-> I am an apostate myself and if I ever meet him; I'll break every bone in his body.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Samatar
    By that I meant, Somalis are totally oral people and love to talk; very opinionated and playful with words. The social media/telecommunication is a match made in heaven for them.
    Then I getya, .

    - - - Updated - - -

    His response is really weak.
    He sounds thoroughly brainwashed.
    Last edited by Awale; 2015-01-29 at 00:59.

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    Several Somali atheists I've spoken to do not like Ayaan Hirsi. They perceive her as a hypocrite and a flip flopper. I tend to agree with that. On the one hand she speaks out against organized religion but then reveals she is actively trying to convert to Judaism. You can't take her serious. It makes you wonder what her agenda is because she has no base to appeal to other than American neo-cons.

    Her grasp of Somali culture and current affairs is limited at best and you see this many times when she's asked about it on panels. Off the top of my head, I remember one where Christopher Hitchens asked her about the situation in Somalia (circa 2007) and she just gave a complete non-answer.

    She's done a lot of damage to the possibility of a new movement and many blame her for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Grace View Post
    Several Somali atheists I've spoken to do not like Ayaan Hirsi. They perceive her as a hypocrite and a flip flopper. I tend to agree with that. On the one hand she speaks out against organized religion but then reveals she is actively trying to convert to Judaism. You can't take her serious. It makes you wonder what her agenda is because she has no base to appeal to other than American neo-cons.
    lol, I thought you were joking but apparently it's true:

    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Islam-...Judaism-394614

    It's of course a career-move; like that old gentile man in Snatch who pretends to be Jewish because being Jewish is good for business
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    No one takes Ayaan Ali Hirsi seriously, even the Dutch got tired of her hatemongering and kicked her out of their country. She is afterall partially responsible of van goghs death. Anyways Somalis don't have honor killings and such, most (that is not salafists) would just laugh at her or call her names if they saw her walking down the streets.
    She's a cheap careerist attention whore, nothing more And this i say as person who deeply hates all Abrahamic religions.

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