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Thread: Chomsky: “humanity is an evolutionary error”839 days old

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rshdn View Post
    An error as opposed to what? Does he have some blueprint for the correct path human evolution is supposed to take?
    That we deviated from?
    Consider the hidden agenda being promoted here and it's quite despicable on Chomsky's part. The blue print is none other than a projection of Chomsky's narcissist ego, he's the self-appointed prophet of a correct path.
    Guilty and confused people are easier to manipulate and control.
    Last edited by Wayland; 2017-04-16 at 03:31.

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  4. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayland View Post
    Chomsky's a pseudo-intellectual, he has high verbal intelligence but lacks analytic intelligence, he communicates his ideas well but those ideas have always paid lip service to the real world. He exists in a self-made echo chamber.
    There's no such thing as evolutionary error, only sentient beings can make errors, implying an intelligent driving force behind evolution and no such driving force exists unless you subscribe to God and this is where we get to the gist of the argument, the idea that humanity is an anomaly outside of nature is pure religious inspired, irrational hokum.
    This is you missing the point Chomsky was making. The gist of Chomsky's argument is that we were not evolutionary perfected (so to say) for the scientific revolution. With the scientific revolution came technology, and some of this technology is friendly to our environment, other technology, not so friendly. But due to human vice and ignorance, there seems to be a preference for the less environmentally friendly technology, and this quite often too. Petroleum (and its byproducts) over industrial hemp, uranium over thorium, and so on. This clearly can't go on, or else we're doomed in the long run. It's not like we don't have a choice, we really do have a choice, but more often than not, we're choosing the bad stuff.

    It's not just about nukes and shit like that by the way. Why are we for example still using sugar as a sweetener? In Japan, they have largely replaced sugar with isomaltulose, which is a slow carb, has the same caloric content as sugar, but much slower (as in lower glycemic index), and as such, doesn't contribute to caries, diabetes or obesity. You think my analogy here with sugar vs isomaltulose is far-fetched? Think again.

    Humans are still animals you know, with higher intelligence than other primates, but animals nonetheless, with all the animal psychology still very much there. Now imagine if you upped the intelligence of take say, chimps, and let's say you have an IQ scale of something like this:

    35 = standard chimp IQ (I'm not sure what the real chimpanzee IQ is, but let's say it's 35 for the sake of argument)
    70 = Human retard level IQ
    100 = Average human IQ
    130 = MENSA level IQ
    140 = Gifted/genius level IQ
    200 = Super intelligence IQ

    You take chimps exactly as they are now, and you up their chimp IQ to 100 (through genetic modification). You think this will result in a totally smooth transition from jungle monkey into sophisticated, eloquent, cerebral, Kryptonian-like scientists such as this:

    Superman: The Movie - Deleted Scenes:


    Or will it result in an animal that's intelligent enough to invent a lot of dangerous toys, and use these toys irresponsibly? Methinks the chimp with dangerous toys is the most likely outcome.

    Now, imagine if humanity had on average, an IQ of 200, instead of 100. We'd be living in a completely different world, probably a better world, and a world that kicked off the scientific revolution much earlier. We'd also be living in a world that favored environmentally friendlier technology and a world that didn't see the need to create hostile technology for the purpose of short-term profit. You know, sort of like this:



    Alternatively, if humanity was still at chimp level IQ, we wouldn't have any such technology and we'd still be in harmony with nature. So the issue here, of humanity being an "evolutionary error", is that we evolved high enough intelligence to irresponsibly create and develop destructive tools, but our intelligence wasn't evolved high enough with responsibility in mind. That's the "evolutionary error".

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayland View Post
    Mankind can't be out of sync with nature because we are nature, there is nothing else, nature is everything.
    This is simply verbal acrobatics, and again, you're missing the point. You might as well say, mankind can't be at odds with nature because we are nature, and if some human individual figures out how to create a black hole right next to our sun that sucks up our entire solar system, we're still not at odds with nature because we're a product of nature, and so on.

    Our species is destroying our common biosphere. That's humanity being "out of sync with nature", call it whatever you want, but it's a very real phenomenon.

    I think it's a logical fallacy to say that mankind can't be out of sync with nature because we're a product of nature. That's like saying we can't be destructive if we blow up our planet through nukes, because we're a product of our planet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayland View Post
    Mankind in conflict\error with nature can only exist if mankind is deemed an entity separate from nature, a dual yin vs. yang, good vs. evil, which implies a spiritual and not physical source for man.
    Or knowledge vs ignorance It's ignorant (and as such, philosophically evil) to destroy our planet and our possibility to exist on this planet. It's either ignorant or stupid, whatever you want to call it.

    Aside from self-preservation, what it's really about at the end of the day, is responsibility. People in general don't want to take responsibility, whatever it is about, people just don't want to take responsibility and prefer to blame it on someone else.

    Now responsibility can be the simple stuff like paying your bills and cleaning your house, or it can be more advanced stuff like the general well being for life in general on this planet. Due to corporate greed, desire for power and such, and tribalism, humanity has chosen a very destructive path. This path has been one that favors destructive technology, and all that it entails. It's clearly not in our interests to live in a toxic/radioactive environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayland View Post
    Doomsday environmentalism has its roots in the unconscious veneration of an intelligent driving force and is therefore analogous with religion. Christianity teaches that man is inherently born with sin, bereft from God, just as environmentalism portrays mankind in conflict with the natural world. Christianity teaches that mankind was cast from the Garden of Eden and lost paradise, just as environmentalism would have us destroying the paradise that is the natural world.
    It’s all sin and guilt peddler at its worst and people like Chomsky are the new high priests.
    Well there are important parallells between the Garden of Eden story, and what Chomsky is talking about. This is all part of his take on the Carl Sagan vs Ernst Mayr debate:

    http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...n-Mayr-debate)

    ^^ So in other words, intelligence is a "lethal mutation", and so intelligence is basically the same thing as "knowledge" in the Garden of Eden story.

    Now clearly knowledge isn't really a bad thing, and intelligence doesn't have to be destructive, but the key issue here, is how knowledge and intelligence are applied in the real world. If you mix knowledge and intelligence with ignorance and stupidity, you'll get a very lethal combination. And that's what humanity has been doing the past century.
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    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by rshdn View Post
    An error as opposed to what?
    An error compared to all other life on this planet? You know, like this:

    Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet:


    ^^ Agent Smith's humans are a virus speech is pretty much saying the same thing Chomsky is now saying, albeit that Chomsky is being slightly more diplomatic.

    Quote Originally Posted by rshdn View Post
    Does he have some blueprint for the correct path human evolution is supposed to take?
    That we deviated from?
    No, of course not. Evolution has no direction anyway, so it's not like our primate ancestors "missed the target".

    We really do have the capacity to fix our environmental problems and cut down on all that destructive technology, but that means doing the right thing more than it's about some evolutionary genes in need of being switched off or on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayland View Post
    Consider the hidden agenda being promoted here and it's quite despicable on Chomsky's part. The blue print is none other than a projection of Chomsky's narcissist ego, he's the self-appointed prophet of a correct path.
    Well if it's one thing I've come to realize over the years, it's that there's only one version of knowledge, and so "the correct path" is pretty much there, not necessarily in evolutionary terms, but in what needs to be done (and you can't really disagree with knowledge, unless you're stupid or ignorant). We can sustain human civilization through other technology that's less harmful. For example, why the hell are we using uranium and not thorium? Why are we using petroleum over hemp fuel? Hemp should be subsidized by the government, all governments, if necessary. But that's taking responsibility, which is not a popular thing to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayland View Post
    Guilty and confused people are easier to manipulate and control.
    What makes you think you're not confused and manipulated?
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2017-04-16 at 15:22.
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    “A wise man makes his own decisions; an ignorant man follows public opinion.” ― Chinese proverb

    “The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.”Socrates

    “Damnant quod non intelligunt.” ― Latin proverb

    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    That is an excellent analysis of Wayland's statements by EliasAlucard. Wayland is basically using illogical logic and Elias took the statements apart one by one and used the correct logic. That is an impressive post.

    I think that the DNA may be in control of the destiny of life on this planet. It seems to try new life forms to see what "works". If the life form dosen't work too well, it goes extinct and the DNA tries again. The question is what is the final life form it is looking for?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rshdn View Post
    An error as opposed to what? Does he have some blueprint for the correct path human evolution is supposed to take?
    That we deviated from?
    Dude, look out the window. Most people are oblivious of the natural world around them. The problem is they spend too much time in front of the TV.

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