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Thread: Is capitalism failing?1401 days old

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    Default Is capitalism failing?

    Important debate by English Al-Jazeera from 2013, on the financial crisis of 2008:

    Head to Head - Has capitalism failed the world?:


    I haven't watched it yet, but let me know if you have, if any good points are made.

    Old picture, but still as inspirational and relevant now as it was when the economy began going downhill:




    I think the biggest problem with capitalism however, isn't the currently high unemployment or greedy and corrupt bankers who are screwing up the world. The real problem of capitalism is the very real and serious, disastrous effects on the environment; that's capitalism's real gift to the world. Capitalism has seriously damaged the environment, because had it not been for capitalism, we'd all be driving cheap cars running on hemp fuel and so on.

    Anyway, how long do you think we'll have to put with capitalism before we can throw this disastrous economic ideology where it belongs, in the garbage dump of history?
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2015-08-18 at 14:18.
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    “A wise man makes his own decisions; an ignorant man follows public opinion.” ― Chinese proverb

    “Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.” ― H. L. Mencken

    “The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.” ― Socrates

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    Quoted for truth:
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    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Anyway, how long do you think we'll have to put with capitalism before we can throw this disastrous economic ideology where it belongs, in the garbage dump of history?
    during your lifetime at least.

    What do you suggest we replace it with?
    The Future was better before

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janos View Post
    during your lifetime at least.
    That's what's worrying me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janos View Post
    What do you suggest we replace it with?
    Well it's not that it's such a problematic system or so. If we could terraform a planet and design its environment and non-human habitats/biotopes/ecosystems, capitalism would be fine I guess.

    Personally, I do think the Swedish "lagom" spin on capitalism is a good balance check. But I don't know what I'd replace it with, perhaps something like Keynesianism or the Nordic model, which is a good and healthy mix of capitalism and socialism. I'm really not that interested in economics anyway.

    What bothers me the most with capitalism, is its profit above the environment mentality; basically profit from anything and everything, even if it means destroying the entire planet, as long as you make money, who cares, right? Another issue I have with capitalism, is that it pretty much encourages profit corruption and other immoral behavior; greed brings out the worst in people. The Iraq war is a case in point.

    Capitalism should be heavily regulated based on environmental factors.

    Another thing is that capitalism is pretty much an irresponsible system. Take for example all the tabloid magazines; all that paper produced just to sell irrelevant junk about celebrity gossip...
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2015-08-19 at 08:01.
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    “A wise man makes his own decisions; an ignorant man follows public opinion.” ― Chinese proverb

    “Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.” ― H. L. Mencken

    “The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.” ― Socrates

    “Damnant quod non intelligunt.” ― Latin proverb

    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    The failure of third way socialism

    http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...-WAY-SOCIALISM

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Another thing is that capitalism is pretty much an irresponsible system. Take for example all the tabloid magazines; all that paper produced just to sell irrelevant junk about celebrity gossips...
    It would be better to force East Asians to eat with knife and fork for the same reason.
    The Future was better before

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    Capitalism is not failing lol, its been as wonderful as it has ever been. In fact, notice how relatively painless the new depression has been compared to the depression which started in 1929. No world war, no massive hunger in the first/second world. It has all been very smooth compared to history.

    Its not capitalism which is failing, its some people who fail in the system. Poor them

    Capitalism is a mirror of the human psychology, we as a society deserve this system and no other system is sustainable as multiple attempts have shown. We are animals, competing with each other, for the best piece of meat, for the most desirable mate, for attention and so on. And unless one would alter human DNA, I don't see how this system can be replaced by anything else.

    One can endlessly whine about the failures of capitalism, but these are our own failures, not "system's failures". A basic example: USSR with its primitive yet stubborn attempt to try another system was polluting the world even more so than capitalistic developed nations. USSR was notorious for neglecting the amazing Russian nature. It's not capitalism which is destroying the world, its humanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acquisitorz View Post
    Capitalism is not failing lol, its been as wonderful as it has ever been. In fact, notice how relatively painless the new depression has been compared to the depression which started in 1929. No world war, no massive hunger in the first/second world. It has all been very smooth compared to history.

    Its not capitalism which is failing, its some people who fail in the system. Poor them

    Capitalism is a mirror of the human psychology, we as a society deserve this system and no other system is sustainable as multiple attempts have shown. We are animals, competing with each other, for the best piece of meat, for the most desirable mate, for attention and so on. And unless one would alter human DNA, I don't see how this system can be replaced by anything else.

    One can endlessly whine about the failures of capitalism, but these are our own failures, not "system's failures". A basic example: USSR with its primitive yet stubborn attempt to try another system was polluting the world even more so than capitalistic developed nations. USSR was notorious for neglecting the amazing Russian nature. It's not capitalism which is destroying the world, its humanity.
    Maybe we will alter human DNA in the future. Some form of genetic communism would do wonders for human society.
    Last edited by Сталкер; 2015-08-18 at 19:35.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acquisitorz View Post
    Capitalism is a mirror of the human psychology, we as a society deserve this system and no other system is sustainable as multiple attempts have shown. We are animals, competing with each other, for the best piece of meat, for the most desirable mate, for attention and so on. And unless one would alter human DNA, I don't see how this system can be replaced by anything else.
    Not at all. Capitalism (at least the one we have Today in the western world) is not in sync with human psychology. It is anti-spiritual values, anti-moral, anti-patriotic, anti-family, anti-common sense, like Elias said there is a lot of unnecessary junk..etc.
    The pro-capitalists always say "needs are created by people, it's supply and demand blabla" but that's bullshit, there are lots of needs that are artificially created out of the blue, with marketing strategies and the media, (the media is part of the system, a tool, financed and owned by the very same capitalistic corporations).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janos View Post
    That's a really crappy thread start...

    Quote Originally Posted by Janos View Post
    It would be better to force East Asians to eat with knife and fork for the same reason.
    I wholeheartedly agree. Those nations should be forced to start producing metal chopsticks. Far more reusable and clean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acquisitorz View Post
    Capitalism is not failing lol, its been as wonderful as it has ever been. In fact, notice how relatively painless the new depression has been compared to the depression which started in 1929. No world war, no massive hunger in the first/second world. It has all been very smooth compared to history.
    Well, that's true, and part of the reason for that is science is much more ubiquitous today than it was in the early 20th century, and if science has done anything in this world, it's been to improve the global economy. While some jobs that used to be done by humans in the form of manual labor have been lost to automation/machines, many more new jobs are created today where you basically sit in front of a computer and do various repetitive tasks. So, it's safe to say that the computer industry has been important for capitalism, no doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acquisitorz View Post
    Its not capitalism which is failing, its some people who fail in the system. Poor them
    True. And part of the reason for that is we're 7 billion people today, as opposed to 1 billion or whatever they were in the early 20th century.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acquisitorz View Post
    Capitalism is a mirror of the human psychology, we as a society deserve this system and no other system is sustainable as multiple attempts have shown. We are animals, competing with each other, for the best piece of meat, for the most desirable mate, for attention and so on. And unless one would alter human DNA, I don't see how this system can be replaced by anything else.
    I don't think capitalism is sustainable for the environment, and I don't think changing human DNA is at all necessary.

    Capitalism simply needs to be regulated based on environmental factors, and that's very important, or else life won't have a future on this planet, and that's the real failure of capitalism. Not miserable bankers committing suicide because money and numbers is all they have on their minds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acquisitorz View Post
    One can endlessly whine about the failures of capitalism, but these are our own failures, not "system's failures". A basic example: USSR with its primitive yet stubborn attempt to try another system was polluting the world even more so than capitalistic developed nations. USSR was notorious for neglecting the amazing Russian nature. It's not capitalism which is destroying the world, its humanity.
    I haven't looked it up, but I'm sure you're right about Soviet Union being environmentally detrimental.

    Look, the problem here isn't so much the capitalist model as it is ownership of private property (which is sort of what capitalism is about anyway). If all industries were forced to use industrial hemp as their main natural resource (along with some other stuff, like soy, flax, wheat and so on, for whatever purpose, see the Hemp car), then capitalism would be fine for the environment.

    The reason why that's not happening, is because hemp threatens the ownership status of corporations:



    ^^ This capitalist mentality, is why we're polluting the planet so much and destroying so many animal habitats, and so on. Hemp isn't attractive to capitalism because that would mean far less concentration of private wealth, and that's why various capitalist lobbyists are against hemp. You think Saudi Arabia would be a rich oil nation if hemp was popular? I don't think so.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2015-08-18 at 20:08.
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    “A wise man makes his own decisions; an ignorant man follows public opinion.” ― Chinese proverb

    “Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.” ― H. L. Mencken

    “The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.” ― Socrates

    “Damnant quod non intelligunt.” ― Latin proverb

    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    When you have more people than you have useful employment, you will have suffering, regardless of whether you have a communist system or a capitalist system. This is why pure libertarianism is retarded. It will end with riots. Some kind of state population management policies is needed along with capitalism, in order to ensure that the genes that make people eligible for employment, i.e., by having a high IQ, good work habits, make their way out of top families, into bottom families.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetton View Post
    Not at all. Capitalism (at least the one we have Today in the western world) is not in sync with human psychology. It is anti-spiritual values, anti-moral, anti-patriotic, anti-family, anti-common sense, like Elias said there is a lot of unnecessary junk..etc.
    if one wants to be anti patriotic (hate that word btw) then its his choice, if one wants to live with anti spiritual values or be immoral then its also his personal choice, if one needs "unnecessary junks" = in whatever form, then again, its his choice/his problem.

    Capitalism offers freedom of choice, much more so than any other system. So why do you concentrate on the negative sides? Any other system would also produce people who want junk, who have certain values which others find immoral. Its human nature, nothing else.


    The pro-capitalists always say "needs are created by people, it's supply and demand blabla" but that's bullshit, there are lots of needs that are artificially created out of the blue, with marketing strategies and the media, (the media is part of the system, a tool, financed and owned by the very same capitalistic corporations).
    Again, if someone wants to pay money to read about who his/her current favorite celebrity is fucking with then its personal choice. If one falls for whatever is written or shown by the media then its his/her choice.

    Capitalism offers the freedom of choice, many do not realize it and swallow the propagandist ejaculate with pleasure, but its their problem, after all having stupid/blind sheep in the society is a good idea.

    Sell me a system where all the things you have mentioned wouldnt be present.

    Religious medieval idiocy? Communist dictatorship ? Medieval monarchy? Anarchy?

    There is a reason why capitalism has prevailed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Сталкер View Post
    When you have more people than you have useful employment, you will have suffering, regardless of whether you have a communist system or a capitalist system. This is why pure libertarianism is retarded. It will end with riots. Some kind of state population management policies is needed along with capitalism, in order to ensure that the genes that make people eligible for employment, i.e., by having a high IQ, good work habits, make their way out of top families, into bottom families.
    That's the biggest trash I have read in this topic.

    There is no such thing as "too many people than you have useful employment". We live in a free market, if you can't either sell yourself or if you can't establish your own company then its all on you, and not on the system. And its those failures who riot and demand things, riots are a manifestation of their failure, nothing else. Because well, nobody owes anything to anyone. Nobody owes you food, a job, medical care and so on.

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