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Thread: Assyrian y-DNA Haplogroup Distribution3466 days old

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    Default Assyrian y-DNA Haplogroup Distribution

    Since the project administrators over at FTDNA have not updated the list in quite some time, I thought I would clean things up a bit. The chart I have attached is a result of the following changes:

    1. Excluded three presumed Saint Thomas Christians.
    2. Excluded man of stated Pakistani origin.
    3. Excluded Syrian Arab
    4. Assigned haplogroup T to unassigned sample, Jacob, based on Whit Athey Predictor and y-Search results.
    5. Included previously unassigned samples, based on FTDNA predicted haplogroups.
    6. Did not assign sample, Khan. Too few markers were tested. Whit Athey predicts R1a based on the 12 markers available. y-Search suggested that the 12 marker haplotype is most consistent with Tunisian samples.
    7. Included 23andMe y-DNA results for Elias and Sargon999.

    NOTE: I excluded individuals, not to offend, but in hopes of obtaining the most representative y-DNA distribution possible from among the samples available.

    After all changes, 47 samples remained.
    Last edited by Humanist; 2012-07-24 at 23:52.
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    It's a good thing you did that because some of those Indians in there were quite obvious by their name.

    Btw what da hell was a Pakistani man doing in this project? I can understand the Indian Christians but was the Pakistani guy Christian also?

    Also since this is a chart you made, you might as well include the haplogroup numbers from the 23andMe to the chart.

    ---------- Post added 2010-04-22 at 14:16 ----------

    Another thing is I know you took out some of the people who you think were Indians, but I honestly believe there are more non-Assyrians there, for example I noticed the J1 people count up to 9, there's only 8 in there but I'm assuming that you added Elias in there, still there's a guy in there by the name of Al-Blooshi, I have never heard an Assyrian last name like that, in fact Blooshi in Arabic means Baluchi which means from Baluchistan, an area in Pakistan/Iran.

    This is not the only one I'm suspect of, is there any way to make sure who's Assyrian and who's not in there?
    Last edited by birko19; 2010-04-22 at 15:01.

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    Keep also in mind that for example J-P58 on 23andMe is still listed as J1e rather than the new change in nomenclature to J1c3.

    Hopefully, in a few years when we have 100 or 200 Assyrians at 23andMe, we can be relatively certain they are Assyrians by comparing their genome-similarity and PCA plot position with other Assyrians and thereby, more accurately, determine haplogroup distribution and frequency of the Assyrian people.
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    Including birko y-DNA haplogroup, R2.

    Changes in haplogroup frequency %s as a result of R2 addition:

    E1b - 9% --> 8%.
    J2 - 11% --> 10%.
    T - 11% --> 10%.
    R2 - 0% --> 2%.
    Last edited by Humanist; 2012-07-24 at 23:52.
    I [Nebuchadnezzar] made a trench searching for the old foundation deposits ( . . . ), and I found the foundation of Naram-Sin, the king of Babylon, a remote ancestor, and I did not remove his inscription, but put my own inscription together with his inscription.
    The Pious King: Royal Patronage of Temples
    By Caroline Waerzeggers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    Including birko y-DNA haplogroup, R2.

    Changes in haplogroup frequency %s as a result of R2 addition:

    E1b - 9% --> 8%.
    J2 - 11% --> 10%.
    T - 11% --> 10%.
    R2 - 0% --> 2%.
    Thanks for updating that, and also thanks for removing the Indians

    I bet those with the F, N, Q, and L are just as confused as I am about their results, hey at least I can relate to those noble Aryan invaders lol, the other weird ones have no escape, one has a Siberian/Native Indian one, another has an Uralic one, and all the others are true indigenous Indians

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    I did not expect R1b to be so prevalent in Assyrians. I'm not so much surprised by the other frequencies, but that is a bit of a shock.

    Is there anymore information on the E1b in Assyrians? I'm expecting the majority of it, if not all, to be some form E1b1b, but that may not be the case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochefaton View Post
    Is there anymore information on the E1b in Assyrians? I'm expecting the majority of it, if not all, to be some form E1b1b, but that may not be the case.
    That is my fault. I failed to change the classification category used by the folks in charge of the FTDNA Assyrian Project. Going forward, no more E1b.

    These are the four Assyrian E1b1b1 samples:

    E1b1b1a3
    E1b1b1
    E1b1b1a2*
    E1b1b1c1a
    I [Nebuchadnezzar] made a trench searching for the old foundation deposits ( . . . ), and I found the foundation of Naram-Sin, the king of Babylon, a remote ancestor, and I did not remove his inscription, but put my own inscription together with his inscription.
    The Pious King: Royal Patronage of Temples
    By Caroline Waerzeggers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochefaton View Post
    I did not expect R1b to be so prevalent in Assyrians. I'm not so much surprised by the other frequencies, but that is a bit of a shock.

    Is there anymore information on the E1b in Assyrians? I'm expecting the majority of it, if not all, to be some form E1b1b, but that may not be the case.
    R1b is actually quite common in the middle east, maybe not with such high frequency but among certain populations around Anatolia, you'll see quite a number of them, not to mention there's a theory out there that says this haplogroup actually originated in Anatolia and then brought farming to Europe through the Anatolia-Greece way, I'm not sure how much truth there's to this theory but there has been known to be an older version of R1b available in this region so it's not that far off.

    I think all of those haplogroups among the Assyrians are common with the exception of F, L, Q, N, and R2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    That is my fault. I failed to change the classification category used by the folks in charge of the FTDNA Assyrian Project. Going forward, no more E1b.

    These are the four Assyrian E1b1b1 samples:

    E1b1b1a3
    E1b1b1
    E1b1b1a2*
    E1b1b1c1a
    I'm just curious, why did these Admins allow that many Indians and other non-Assyrians in the project? Is this like an open thing and anyone just comes in and joins? Personally I would only keep it for Assyrians and check to make sure the people who are joining are Assyrians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by birko19 View Post
    R1b is actually quite common in the middle east, maybe not with such high frequency but among certain populations around Anatolia, you'll see quite a number of them, not to mention there's a theory out there that says this haplogroup actually originated in Anatolia and then brought farming to Europe through the Anatolia-Greece way, I'm not sure how much truth there's to this theory but there has been known to be an older version of R1b available in this region so it's not that far off.
    Yes, I am aware of this, but I did not expect R1b to be the most frequent haplogroup out of the 47 individuals in the project.

    After researching the R1b in Assyrians further via google, it would appear that it is common for Assyrians to carry an R1b1b2a* haplotype with a DYS 393 value of 12, which is thought to be the ancestoral state of the common Western European R1b1b2a1 subclades which usually have a DYS 393 value of 13.

    I wonder if there are any Assyrians out there that are R1b1a guys. I have yet to find any in my search.
    Last edited by Rochefaton; 2010-04-24 at 07:30.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochefaton View Post
    I did not expect R1b to be so prevalent in Assyrians. I'm not so much surprised by the other frequencies, but that is a bit of a shock.
    The whole R1b debacle is most humorous, especially in a Middle-Eastern context.

    The original perception was, as I'm sure you're aware, that R1b originated in Iberia and expanded after the LGM given it's frequency there. It was considered a "European" subclade of R, and that presumption was furthered by certain academic papers circa 2001.

    I consider Wells' paper on Central Asia to be the first dent laid into the Iberian LGM theory; all three major R sub/clades (R1a, R1b and R2) were all found in places like Uzbekistan, which should raised questions over the exclusivity of R1b to Europe. Nevertheless, it appears as if Wells and his team had other projects in mind and carried on purporting the above. Wells suggested in a later paper that the R1b found in Lebanon might have descended from Crusade-era Europeans.

    The actual origins of R1b have only been addressed satisfactorily in the past two years. Genealogists on other sites have concluded that R1b1b2 diversity is highest in SE Europe. Two major "branches" of R1b1b2 were discovered; one that made up much of West and North Europe (ht15) and another that was predominant in South Europe, Anatolia, the Levant, the Caucasus and even the Iranian plateau (ht35). Further to the above, several paragroups that precede R1b1b2 (i.e. R1b1*, R1*) have been found further East as well, notably in Turkey and Iran.
    The general picture is quite clear, and we can now surmise roughly what happened over thousands of years. R was born in Central Asia, one branch (R1) moved west towards Iran, both R1a and R1b formed around that general area, as did R1b1*, and then one particular branch (R1b1b2) was successful enough to expand into Europe, with another branch within that expanding into the outer periphery of Europe (R1b1b2 ht15). Of course, this is quite simplified.

    Relating this to the Assyrian results, it isn't hard to believe that R1b1b2 is one of the more dominant clades among them as their geographical neighbours are plentiful in it also. R1b1b2 is very frequent in Turkey and the South Caucasus, has a strong presence in North Iran and (according to Al-Zahery et al.) was the joint-third most prominent in Iraqi Arabs (~11% from memory).

    Considering the above, and that most of those Assyrian R1b1b2's belong to ht35 at a glance, we can only conclude most of these lines are indigenous to historical Assyria, and made up the gene-pool of the ancient Assyrians.

    (Note: I understand your surprise over the small sample set, and the above is just my two cents on the whole subject.)

    Is there anymore information on the E1b in Assyrians? I'm expecting the majority of it, if not all, to be some form E1b1b, but that may not be the case.
    Assyrian Heritage Y-DNA project

    I imagine most of the Assyrian E's are E1b1b1, much like Turks, South Caucasians and Iranians. You do get the odd E1b1a in some Arabian Gulf countries, but I'd speculate on those descending from recent African migrants.
    Last edited by Humata; 2010-04-24 at 07:25.

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