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Thread: Genealogy vs Genetics635 days old

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancestryfan1994 View Post
    Nobody ever said that you should use genetics as a means to define who you are, though many do and there is nothing wrong with that by any means. I think Elias (guy who runs this forum) did just that if i recall correctly, prior to genetics he was Lebanese, and after he realized there was much more to him, I now get the vibe that he strongly sees himself as an Assyrian. I still think you are trying to avoid genetics because of the possibility that you find something like a dreaded African great grandparent possibly, or maybe you test and see that your not as much in tune with your "Germanic" ancestry as you think you are? either way genetics beats genealogy in most departments, one could easily lie on a consensus record in many ways, but if you have a reliable genome analysis, it wont lie.
    Is there something wrong with identifying as Lebanese? Whether I identify as American or British, my ancestry on all sides was under the same government in 1776. I wonder if that would not be enough for some people. For myself, perhaps I take it for granted that my XY DNA is from the Viking period and that my XX DNA is from the Volkerwanderung, generalized as Danes and Saxons respectively. It is true that my DNA clusters differently than it used to, because of mass population movements. I can understand that would be why some don't understand the point of "Nordicism" despite the actual primary origins of my heritage. There are preconceived notions what that means, but people forget that the Vikings in Ireland and Normans in France connected with the Danes in England to combine them all into one experience. This makes sense if you are a literate person.

    Sure, I've speculated on to what degree I have Celtic or Romance DNA, but when I put my knowledge of these into proper context for where they fit in my family tree only a few generations ago, I would not have any cause for suspicion about my primarily Germanic ancestry. Furthermore, when I observe that even more recent generations have assimilated the neighboring DNA from the Irish Sea and English Channel, so there is more endogamy, with in-laws also primarily of English origin and secondarily Celtic, this ethnic heritage bottlenecks the DNA clustering. There is no essential difference for my family, both what made me and what DNA went into making our children, than had we lived in Britain without our ancestors moving to America to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    If heaven forbid, you or any member of your family need an emergency blood transfusion how do you go about it, using only phenotype as a proxy for your ancestry?

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    Still waiting to see his paternal terminal snp,[downstream markers from J-p58] unless he doesn't identify with that part of his ancestry.
    How many hairs are split to determine "identification" with this or that component of one's DNA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    Your DEPL2 & have Y-DNA R1a A7080/H5a1f . Your in a position of strength, knowing your ancestry with or without a paper trail. I'm in a similar position,[used to be PLDE1]R1b-BY-593/U5b2a2. I don't think O.P. is quite aware of all the latest advancements, [no need for needles & so forth]. Better to be kind, impartial/gracious and non judgmental[that applies across the board/IMO].
    What do these DNA results actually mean for you? How do you translate them into actual personhood and culture?

    Quote Originally Posted by thetick View Post
    Fair enough if you are actually interested in archaeology as you claim take a look at what genetics has provided about the origin of Europeans.
    http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/15...comms9912.html

    It's very interesting that genetic testing of ancient Europeans has revealed the ancient components that make up Europeans.
    I have found a bunch of DNA-based maps that contradict each other as well as archaeological distribution maps. There is no consistency with anthropology. I have less and less respect for this discipline, but it used to consume all my energy. I find taking care of my family more meaningful than deciphering the gibberish I come across in "scientific" documents that don't add up to any coherent premise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    You classify yourself as Germanic or Celtic or English or "X" based on your paper trail? Based on your phenotype? Based on military records that your ancestors served in the German army, or an Irish or English clan uprising. Enlighten us, how did you come to the conclusion of your ancestry? That does not include any or all of the above?

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    However you still trust medical field and science to provide the right match. The same applies with ancestral genetic testing in general.

    Anyway if your are happy with your research , you should maybe move on to another subject. Many of the forum members are interested in genetics, not all but a good portion.
    I'm sorry, but social studies has given me a good understanding of ethnicity and national backgrounds down to tribes and clans. In some cases, I even know what parts my ancestors took in feuds, what wars they fought in and what particular battles or fields of honor they involved themselves, what crops and animals they grew and raised, what occupations they had and if they were susceptible to certain popular movements or kept aloof, along with their religious beliefs and social statuses.

    It is true that social classification is not entirely or strictly biological. American Indian and Canadian First Nations reservations qualify anybody for tribal membership who has ancestors that were important enough to their purposes, as there are no truly unmixed Mongoloid populations in North America (except maybe the Navajo, Eskimos and people of Nunavut), so even if these groups are endogamous now (like in Oklahoma), they will still recycle White DNA. Nevertheless, the groups identifying as Mongoloid continue to do so, despite their White ancestry. Society has a social construct, regardless of the science--which I do not deny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    thank-you for sharing
    We come from different backgrounds. Exchanging ideas; something like the Eagle trying to explain what he perceives in his world/environment to the Mantis shrimp's world/environment[12-channel colour vision, 2 channel linear polarization detection in ocean vs 2 mile distance in air]. So please don't take offence.
    http://planetanimalzone.blogspot.ca/...beautiful.html
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_eye
    I'm not much for organized religion[i do beleive in G_d not to offend anyone] or politics; growing up in a dangerous cult, had it's toll.
    sometimes deadly, no not this one, but you get the general idea
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKe3G1zMZ6A
    I'm though very pro-family, and community, and friendships with people who hold similar values. Preferably meek/mild natured; and more intelligent to me, while respecting/tolerant those who have differences.
    Taking a genetic test helped me understand how related my ancestors are. For example, the region my family comes from is split along Slavic/Germanic lines. I'm quite sure if my grandfather had access to the information I have, he would have never been a sniper in the army killing what he did not know at the time to be his own people.

    Just an off topic comment/question. Why is U.S. student debt currently the only type of debt that’s not dischargeable in bankruptcy?
    I can certainly sympathize with you about having a border ancestry (Silesia) and this would be a good reason to check your DNA on one hand, but certainly, your loyalty matters more? A country like Cyprus is bound to be a mix between Greek and Turk. Look at Finland, Belgium and Switzerland for countries which do not have a black or white sense of identity between those held by surrounding nation states. Is Cyprus Indo-European or Altaic, or both? Is Finland closer to Swedes or Estonians: are they Germanic or Uralic, or both? Belgium and Switzerland obviously have the same social conditions of the ancient Roman frontier of Germania, thereby two different language families coexist for the two different peoples in the same space. Is a mixed population a distinct population of its own? How long does it take to be seen as such? Are Cypriots, Finns, Belgians and Swiss valid peoples, or must clear demarcation be made? Are Silesians Germanic or Slavic and does this question demand an answer of either/or?

    For instance, my family has traditionally fought the Scots whenever they would come across Hadrian's Wall and yet, there is some Scottish ancestry simply by proximity to Scotland. This generally distinguishes Northumbria from the rest of England, even though they otherwise have a common origin. Further complicating this, was the fact that the Scottish monarchs ruled Northumbria as vassals of the English monarchs, who themselves ruled Normandy as vassals of the French monarchs. In the case of Northumbria, it was partitioned between England and Scotland and Lothian is a full part of the Lowlands, whereas even though England and France partitioned Normandy, the Channel Islands are not now part of England, nor have they ever been. Is not Scotland an artificial or civil state, not a nation-state, because the people of Edinburgh are actually English, whereas the Highlanders are Irish? What is the fundamental sense of identity for Channel Islanders, seriously? Are they a legit people comparable to Manx and are the latter even regarded as a viable ethnicity either?
    Last edited by Auduid; 2017-09-01 at 03:05.
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  3. #42
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    In my case, I did DNA testing because I'm an adoptee, so it was "better than nothing".

    I just wanted to make sure that the story which my adoptive family told me was the truth and to be aware of potential health risks. Recently, I've been doing some genealogy research via Ancestry DNA family trees which I connect towards my own family tree. Obviously I can't piece together my recent family, but I am figuring out some ancestors I had about 4+ generations back.
    "Living or dying, it's not a big deal. What we should be concerned about is whether or not we're allowed to crawl to our graves."

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    Quote Originally Posted by a_garcia49 View Post
    In my case, I did DNA testing because I'm an adoptee, so it was "better than nothing".

    I just wanted to make sure that the story which my adoptive family told me was the truth and to be aware of potential health risks. Recently, I've been doing some genealogy research via Ancestry DNA family trees which I connect towards my own family tree. Obviously I can't piece together my recent family, but I am figuring out some ancestors I had about 4+ generations back.
    That's the one reason I definitely recommend, especially with the rise of international adoptions. Who's the Spaniard in your avatar?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auduid View Post
    That's the one reason I definitely recommend, especially with the rise of international adoptions. Who's the Spaniard in your avatar?
    That's Tiburcio Vasquez, a Californio vigilante who protected Mexicans in 1800's California from Anglo miners who often harassed the townspeople.
    "Living or dying, it's not a big deal. What we should be concerned about is whether or not we're allowed to crawl to our graves."

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    Quote Originally Posted by a_garcia49 View Post
    That's Tiburcio Vasquez, a Californio vigilante who protected Mexicans in 1800's California from Anglo miners who often harassed the townspeople.
    A bit of defiance against The Man? You wouldn't happen to be a Cesar Chavez fanatic, would you? I went to school with a Puerto Rican girl named Raquel Vasquez.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auduid View Post
    A bit of defiance against The Man? You wouldn't happen to be a Cesar Chavez fanatic, would you? I went to school with a Puerto Rican girl named Raquel Vasquez.
    It's a bit complicated lol.

    I was adopted by Mexican-American parents, my own bio parents are Mexican citizens who live in Mexico(idk where).

    My adoptive maternal family were farmworkers who marched with Cesar Chavez, my maternal grandfather(Mexican who immigrated in 1950's) had a good relationship with him. On the other hand, my adoptive paternal family were one of the few Mexican-American field contractors of the area, so they don't have a good view of Chavez because he disrupted their profits lol.

    Edit: That said, both sides of my adoptive family liked Tiburcio Vasquez and Joaquin Murrieta lol.
    Last edited by a_garcia49; 2017-09-01 at 04:12.
    "Living or dying, it's not a big deal. What we should be concerned about is whether or not we're allowed to crawl to our graves."

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