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Thread: R1a-Z93 among priestly castes of Hinduists and Jews.1315 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polako View Post
    Afanasievo was R1a-M417* IMO. Hence the R1a-M417* in the Tarim mummies.

    Andronovo were a different, later group from the Ural steppe, and they carried Z93.
    M417 is an ancestral branch to both z282 and z93. The age of Z282 and z93 mutations fit the time frame of the Afanasievo culture. It remains to be seen what markers Afanasievans had down M417 tree. The important bit of information is eastern origin of Afanasievans. IMO both Kyrgyz and Khakassians would be more similar to Afanasevans than east Europeans and many south Asians at genome-wide comparison.
    Last edited by Rugevit; 2016-04-01 at 08:04.

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  3. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugevit View Post
    The important bit of information is eastern origin of Afanasievans.
    Afanasievans had Western origin, they split from late Khvalynsk people, were fully Europid and would be more similar to East Europeans than either to Kyrgyz or Khakassians at genome-wide comparison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aeon View Post
    Afanasievans had Western origin, they split from late Khvalynsk people, were fully Europid and would be more similar to East Europeans than either to Kyrgyz or Khakassians at genome-wide comparison.
    Not according to this PCA plot. IMO Polako prepared the plot. Look how much more eastern are Afanasievo than east Europeans and Sintashta.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugevit View Post
    M417 is an ancestral branch to both z282 and z93. The age of Z282 and z93 mutations fit the time frame of the Afanasievo culture. It remains to be seen what markers Afanasievans had down M417 tree. The important bit of information is eastern origin of Afanasievans. IMO both Kyrgyz and Khakassians would be more similar to Afanasevans than east Europeans and many south Asians at genome-wide comparison.
    Nope. East Europeans, in fact all Europeans, are more similar to Afanasievo than Kyrgyz, Khakassians and South Asians are. The reason being is that Afanasievo is almost fully West Eurasian, in fact Bronze Age European, while Kyrgyz, Khakassians and South Asians have significant ENA/ASI input, and these are highly divergent non-West Eurasian components.

    The plot above is a West Eurasian plot so it's not affected greatly by excess ENA/ASI. On a global plot Afanasievo plot with East Euros.

    Global PCA of selected Late Neolithic/Bronze Age Eurasians

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  7. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polako View Post
    Nope. East Europeans, in fact all Europeans, are more similar to Afanasievo than Kyrgyz, Khakassians and South Asians are. The reason being is that Afanasievo is almost fully West Eurasian, in fact Bronze Age European, while Kyrgyz, Khakassians and South Asians have significant ENA/ASI input, and these are highly divergent non-West Eurasian components.

    The plot above is a West Eurasian plot so it's not affected greatly by excess ENA/ASI. On a global plot Afanasievo plot with East Euros.

    Global PCA of selected Late Neolithic/Bronze Age Eurasians

    I don't see Kyrgyz and Khassian as south Asians. I see their genetic profiles a substrate of west Siberians. So do you see Afansievans closer to us [east Europeans full of R1a1-Z282 and European at genome-wide comparison] than to Kyrgyz and Aboriginals of Altay mountains?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugevit View Post
    I don't see Kyrgyz and Khassian as south Asians. I see their genetic profiles a substrate of west Siberians. So do you see Afansievans closer to us [east Europeans full of R1a1-Z282 and European at genome-wide comparison] than to Kyrgyz and Aboriginals of Altay mountains?
    f3 outgroup shared drift stats based on ~500K SNPs.

    Afanasievo Yamnaya_Samara Ju_hoan_North 0.286607
    Afanasievo Yamnaya_Kalmykia Ju_hoan_North 0.286602
    Afanasievo Poltavka Ju_hoan_North 0.286593
    Afanasievo Srubnaya Ju_hoan_North 0.282128
    Afanasievo Corded_Ware_Germany Ju_hoan_North 0.280715
    Afanasievo Andronovo Ju_hoan_North 0.279017
    Afanasievo Unetice_EBA Ju_hoan_North 0.278446
    Afanasievo Lithuanian Ju_hoan_North 0.27823
    Afanasievo Estonian Ju_hoan_North 0.276489
    Afanasievo Icelandic Ju_hoan_North 0.276389
    Afanasievo Ukrainian_East Ju_hoan_North 0.276136
    Afanasievo Norwegian Ju_hoan_North 0.276088
    Afanasievo Scottish_Argyll Ju_hoan_North 0.275969
    Afanasievo Bell_Beaker_Germany Ju_hoan_North 0.275756
    Afanasievo Orcadian Ju_hoan_North 0.27542
    Afanasievo Belarusian Ju_hoan_North 0.275302
    Afanasievo English_Cornwall Ju_hoan_North 0.275181
    Afanasievo Finnish Ju_hoan_North 0.275158
    Afanasievo Mordovian Ju_hoan_North 0.274739
    Afanasievo Czech Ju_hoan_North 0.274463
    Afanasievo Russian_Kargopol Ju_hoan_North 0.274444
    Afanasievo Ukrainian_West Ju_hoan_North 0.274216
    Afanasievo Saami Ju_hoan_North 0.274168
    Afanasievo English_Kent Ju_hoan_North 0.274077
    Afanasievo Hungarian Ju_hoan_North 0.273408
    Afanasievo Karasuk Ju_hoan_North 0.27282
    Afanasievo French Ju_hoan_North 0.272579
    Afanasievo Croatian Ju_hoan_North 0.27254
    Afanasievo Hungary_BA Ju_hoan_North 0.272474
    Afanasievo Basque_Spanish Ju_hoan_North 0.271893
    Afanasievo Basque_French Ju_hoan_North 0.271536
    Afanasievo Lezgin Ju_hoan_North 0.271343
    Afanasievo Spanish_Pais_Vasco Ju_hoan_North 0.271223
    Afanasievo Chechen Ju_hoan_North 0.270913
    Afanasievo French_South Ju_hoan_North 0.270372
    Afanasievo Bulgarian Ju_hoan_North 0.270238
    Afanasievo Italian_Bergamo Ju_hoan_North 0.269717
    Afanasievo Tajik_Shugnan Ju_hoan_North 0.269632
    Afanasievo Spanish_Cataluna Ju_hoan_North 0.269489
    Afanasievo Spanish_Valencia Ju_hoan_North 0.269129
    Afanasievo Spanish_Cantabria Ju_hoan_North 0.269119
    Afanasievo Tajik_Rushan Ju_hoan_North 0.268888
    Afanasievo Kumyk Ju_hoan_North 0.268856
    Afanasievo Albanian Ju_hoan_North 0.268855
    Afanasievo Spanish_Aragon Ju_hoan_North 0.268761
    Afanasievo Adygei Ju_hoan_North 0.268713
    Afanasievo Kotias Ju_hoan_North 0.268581
    Afanasievo Tajik_Ishkashim Ju_hoan_North 0.26842
    Afanasievo Italian_Tuscan Ju_hoan_North 0.268325
    Afanasievo Greek Ju_hoan_North 0.268307
    Afanasievo Spanish_Baleares Ju_hoan_North 0.268208
    Afanasievo Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon Ju_hoan_North 0.268198
    Afanasievo Spanish_Castilla_la_Mancha Ju_hoan_North 0.268192
    Afanasievo Abkhasian Ju_hoan_North 0.268141
    Afanasievo Balkar Ju_hoan_North 0.268052
    Afanasievo North_Ossetian Ju_hoan_North 0.267768
    Afanasievo Spanish_Murcia Ju_hoan_North 0.266924
    Afanasievo Spanish_Andalucia Ju_hoan_North 0.266618
    Afanasievo Georgian Ju_hoan_North 0.26643
    Afanasievo Spanish_Extremadura Ju_hoan_North 0.266324
    Afanasievo Kalash Ju_hoan_North 0.266122
    Afanasievo Spanish_Galicia Ju_hoan_North 0.265927
    Afanasievo Iberia_Chalcolithic Ju_hoan_North 0.265538
    Afanasievo Altai_IA Ju_hoan_North 0.265484
    Afanasievo Sardinian Ju_hoan_North 0.264977
    Afanasievo Italian_WestSicilian Ju_hoan_North 0.264574
    Afanasievo Armenian Ju_hoan_North 0.264278
    Afanasievo LBK_EN Ju_hoan_North 0.264248
    Afanasievo Georgian_Jew Ju_hoan_North 0.264213
    Afanasievo Hungary_EN Ju_hoan_North 0.264081
    Afanasievo Pathan Ju_hoan_North 0.263689
    Afanasievo Turkish Ju_hoan_North 0.263669
    Afanasievo Ashkenazi_Jew Ju_hoan_North 0.263584
    Afanasievo Iberia_MN Ju_hoan_North 0.263303
    Afanasievo Assyrian_WGA Ju_hoan_North 0.263222
    Afanasievo Italian_EastSicilian Ju_hoan_North 0.263039
    Afanasievo Cypriot Ju_hoan_North 0.262587
    Afanasievo Iberia_EN Ju_hoan_North 0.262507
    Afanasievo Iranian_Jew Ju_hoan_North 0.26234
    Afanasievo Anatolia_Neolithic Ju_hoan_North 0.262225
    Afanasievo GujaratiA Ju_hoan_North 0.261772
    Afanasievo Iranian Ju_hoan_North 0.261607
    Afanasievo Balochi Ju_hoan_North 0.261031
    Afanasievo Brahui Ju_hoan_North 0.260355
    Afanasievo GujaratiB Ju_hoan_North 0.260139
    Afanasievo Iraqi_Jew Ju_hoan_North 0.25987
    Afanasievo Druze Ju_hoan_North 0.259521
    Afanasievo GujaratiC Ju_hoan_North 0.258178
    Afanasievo GujaratiD Ju_hoan_North 0.255541
    Afanasievo Altaian Ju_hoan_North 0.254412
    Afanasievo Kyrgyz Ju_hoan_North 0.253967

  9. #137
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    Hi everyone!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wojewoda View Post
    As for the hypothesis that "Ashina probably comes from one of the Saka languages of central Asia and means "blue"" this is related to Polish "siny" meaning "gray-blue, livid".
    Someone remember the "krsna Tvac"?

    kRSNa - black, dark, dark-blue

    So maybe it's not krasna, but krAshina?

    And do we have Ashinas in Poland? Yes we do.

    Krasińscy z Krasina - KrAshinas from KrAshina
    https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasi%C5%84scy_z_Krasina (Polish only)



    Note the colours.

    Krasińscy z Krasna
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Krasi%C5%84ski



    Mix of Vedic krsna with Polish krasna.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Panthalika View Post
    Hi everyone!



    Someone remember the "krsna Tvac"?

    kRSNa - black, dark, dark-blue

    So maybe it's not krasna, but krAshina?

    And do we have Ashinas in Poland? Yes we do.

    Krasińscy z Krasina - KrAshinas from KrAshina
    https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasi%C5%84scy_z_Krasina (Polish only)



    Note the colours.

    Krasińscy z Krasna
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Krasi%C5%84ski



    Mix of Vedic krsna with Polish krasna.
    Or we can go the other way:

    ash (n.2)

    type of tree, Old English æsc "ash tree," also "spear made of ash wood," from Proto-Germanic *askaz, *askiz (cognates: Old Norse askr, Old Saxon ask, Middle Dutch esce, German Esche), from PIE root *os- "ash tree" (cognates: Armenian haci "ash tree," Albanian ah "beech," Greek oxya "beech," Latin ornus "wild mountain ash," Russian jasen, Lithuanian uosis "ash"). Ash was the preferred wood for spear-shafts, so Old English æsc sometimes meant "spear" (as in æsc-here "company armed with spears").
    See also In Nomine Jassa blog: "On crazy etymologies"



    And what about "f-aszyna":






    Also I have just discovered that someone had already suggested a link between "Ashina" and "siny":

    Quote Originally Posted by Arsak Håkan
    I personally think that the Ashina clan was certainly of Saka origin, in particular from the Turkic hemisphere. This idea is seconded by various leading Turkologists. Some say they were an Iranian speaking royal house who established the "Royal House of the Gokturks" a well. The base is the Iranian Khotan Saka language, where we find the word "asseina", which means blue => hence Turkic "GOK-turks" = "Blue/Celestials". The problem is that "asseina" is in my mind a Finno-Ugric word, which stands for blue in all Finno-Ugric languages and only some Slavic languages.

    Finnish = sininen
    Estonian = sinine
    Bulgarian = sin
    Macedonian = sina
    Polish = siny
    Ukrainian = sinij
    Russian = sinij

    but...
    Persian = ebÿ

    So I don't get why some historians link it with Iranian at all, since it is a well established supposition that the Saka cultural horizon also consisted of big non-Iranian p
    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2016-04-07 at 08:40.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kipchak_Håkan View Post
    Like I said 1 year ago Z2125 is the typical Scytho-Turkic branch of R1a Z93: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...gration-theory
    Rubbish. There is no turkic branch of R1a like there is no native american branch of R1b. All of R1a among Turks is either from Iranic Andronovo colonists which settled in Siberia and mixed with Proto-Turks or from Iranics assimilated in the last 1500 years. Some of R1a among Tatars is also from Balto-Slavs. Turks are irrelevant for the early history of R1a

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    Anyways jewish Z93 and Brahmin Z93 are quite different and have just a common ancestor more than 4000 years ago. Brahmins are L657 and Jews have none of it. Jewish Z93 is the result of a founder effect and has likely an Iranic source

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