User Tag List

Page 12 of 27 FirstFirst ... 2 10 11 12 13 14 22 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 264

Thread: R1a-Z93 among priestly castes of Hinduists and Jews.1347 days old

  1. #111
    Established Member
    Evolutionary Biologist Wojewoda's Avatar
    Last Online
    2019-10-18 @ 15:51
    Join Date
    2009-10-24
    Posts
    6,627
    Location
    Warsaw, Poland
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    I1 Z63+ S2078+ L1237-
    mtDNA
    U3a1a
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Poland

    Default

    In the comment section of the Eurogenes Blog I have found the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    In 2015-2016 in Fudan University (Shanghai), headed by ethnogenomist Shao-Qing Wen (文少卿) in China were tested to determine the Y-DNA haplogroup the representatives from aristocratic Turkic clan Ashina (creators and managers Turkic Khanate in the VI-VII centuries) and Ashide(阿史德: another dominant clan which produced empresses, so called Khatuns, and supreme military leaders).

    Ashina, also spelled Asen, Asena, or Açina, was a tribe and the ruling dynasty of the ancient Turks who rose to prominence in the mid-6th century when their leader, Bumin Khan, revolted against the Rouran. The two main branches of the family, one descended from Bumin and the other from his brother Istemi, ruled over the eastern and western parts of the Göktürk empire, respectively.

    The result:
    Subclade of clan Ashina: R1a-Z93, Z94+, Z2123-, Y2632-. Recommended to request SNPs — Z2124, Z2122.

    Subclade of clan Ashide: Q1a-L53.

    When I check the existing ancient yDNA samples, I see that Z2122 is in Sintashta (RISE386, RISE392) and in Andronovo (Rise512). It looks like Ashina haplotype could be the typical Turkic haplotype under Z2125 found in Kyrgyz and Altaians.

    By contrast, Q1a-L53 seems to be a typical Altaian and Central Siberian haplogroup as it is distributed as follows: 1st branch Northern Altaians, Western Khakasses; 2nd branch Southern Altaians; 3rd branch Todjins, Soyots, Eastern Khakasses, Tuvinians and 4th branch Tuvinians, Mongols, Kets, Khantys. My understanding is that L-53 was not found in Karasuk or Iron Age Altai who are all Q-M25. Maybe the Khvalynsk Q1a belonged to this line, because Genetiker defines it as xQ1a2. If so, it clearly took its revenge during the Turkic Empire. :-)
    About the clan Ashina:

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    Ashina (Chinese: 阿史那; pinyin: Āshǐnà; Wade–Giles: A-shih-na; Middle Chinese: (Guangyun) [ʔɑʃi̯ə˥nɑ˩]), also spelled Asen, Asena, or Açina, was a tribe and the ruling dynasty of the ancient Turks who rose to prominence in the mid-6th century when their leader, Bumin Khan, revolted against the Rouran. The two main branches of the family, one descended from Bumin and the other from his brother Istemi, ruled over the eastern and western parts of the Göktürk empire, respectively.

    Origin

    Some researchers, such as H.W. Haussig,[1] S.G. Kljyashtorny,[2][3] A.N. Bernstamm,[4] C. V. Findley,[5] B.A. Muratov,[6] R.R. Suyunov,[7] D.G. Savinov,[8] S.P. Guschin,[6] Rona-Tas,[9] R.N. Frye,[10] and others who point out the origin of the Ashina from Saka-Wusun, put forward in favor of this version of the following arguments:

    Name

    The recent re-reading of the Bugut inscription, the oldest inscription of the Ashina dynasty, written in Sogdian, by a Japanese team of philologists has suggested that the name, known only in the Chinese transcription of Ashina, was in fact Ashinas. It is in fact known in later Arabic sources under this form.[citation needed]

    Genetics (Data of Y-DNA)

    In 2015-2016 yy. in Fudan University (Shanghai), headed by ethnogenomist Shao-Qing Wen (文少卿) in China were tested to determine the Y-DNA haplogroup the representatives from aristocratic Turkic clan Ashina (creators and managers Turkic Khanate in the VI-VII centuries)and Ashide(阿史德: another dominant clan which produced empresses, so called Khatuns, and supreme military leaders).

    Subclade of clan Ashina: R1a-Z93, Z94+, Z2123-, Y2632-.(Ashide: Q1a-L53)[11] In this research, 6 R-Z94 applicants, who identifies themselves as descendants of Ashina clan and whose ancestors are known to be originated from Gaochang(高昌), are listed as the descendants of Ashina clan, with 4 of them from China having a surname Shi(史) and 2 of them from Afghanistan Pashtun and Bulgaria.

    Etymology

    Findley assumes that the name Ashina probably comes from one of the Saka languages of central Asia and means "blue", gök in Turkic, the color identified with the east, so that Göktürk, another name for the Turk empire, meant the "Turks of the East".[5] This is seconded by the Hungarian researcher András Róna-Tas, who finds it plausible "that we are dealing with a royal family and clan of Saka origin".[9]

    "Ashina" means either "noble wolf" in Turkic languages - wolf being Bure or Kaskyr. In Mongolian languages wolf is - Shono or Chono. "A" - is the prefix of respect in Chinese; other opinions - or roots of the ethnonym "Ashina" are to be found in Saka-Wusun tribal anthroponymes.

    H.W. Haussig[1] and S.G. Kljyashtorny[3] suggest an association between the name and the compound "kindred of Ashin" ahşaẽna - Old Persian, which can get quite satisfactory etymological development. This is so even in East Turkestan - then the desired form would be in the Sogdian 'xs' yn' k (-әhšēnē) "blue, dark"; Khotan-Saka (Brahmi) āşşeiņa (-āşşena) "blue", where a long -ā- emerged as development ahş-> āşş-; in Tocharian A āśna- "blue, dark" (from Khotan-Saka and Sogdian). The Saka etymology ashina (<āşşeiņa ~ āşşena) with the value "blue" (the color of the sky) is phonetically and semantically flawless. There is a textual support for this version in the ancient runic inscriptions of the Turks.

    In the large Orkhon inscriptions, in the story of the first Kagan, people living in the newly created empire, are named kök türk - translated as "Celestial Turks". Without touching the numerous interpretations kök may have in this combination, we note its perfect semantic match with the reconstructed value of the name Ashina. An explicit semantic calque suggests knowledge of its original meaning and foreign origin, which is compatible with the multi-ethnic, multi-cultural nature of the First Turkic khanate, which entailed the loss, however, of the popularity of "national character", in the words of L. Bazin, as was the political and cultural environment of the Otyuken regime of the era of Bilge Kagan.

    The name Ashina was recorded in Ancient Arab chronicles in the form - Sha - ne.

    (...)

    After the collapse of the Göktürk empire under pressure from the resurgent Uyghurs, branches of the Ashina clan moved westward to Europe, where they became the kaghans of the Khazars[26][27] and possibly other nomadic peoples with Turkic roots.
    According to Marquart, the Ashina clan constituted a noble caste throughout the steppes. Similarly, the Bashkir historian and Turkolog Zeki Validi Togan described them as a "desert aristocracy" that provided rulers for a number of Eurasian nomadic empires. Accounts of the Göktürk and Khazar khaganates suggest that the Ashina clan was accorded sacred, perhaps quasi-divine status in the shamanic religion practiced by the steppe nomads of the first millennium CE.

    So could Ashkenazi Levites be of Ashina clan origin?

    As for the hypothesis that "Ashina probably comes from one of the Saka languages of central Asia and means "blue"" this is related to Polish "siny" meaning "gray-blue, livid".
    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2016-03-23 at 09:45.

  2. # ADS
    Advertisement bot
    Join Date
    2013-03-24
    Location
    ForumBiodiversity.com
    Posts
    All threads
       
     

  3. #112
    Wiki Editor
    Moderator
    Your favourite (((Skype))) Semitic Duwa's Avatar
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2010-02-26
    Posts
    3,411
    Location
    In your closet
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    J1-Z18271 (YSC234+)
    mtDNA
    J1c5
    Race
    Caucasoid
    Metaethnos
    (((Skype))) + British
    Ethnicity
    (((Canaanite)))
    Politics
    Pump & Trump
    Religion
    Jehovah's Fitness
    Israel Israel Star of David Israel Israel

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wojewoda View Post
    So could Ashkenazi Levites be of Ashina clan origin?
    Very unlikely, like "Kriistina" said, "it looks like Ashina haplotype could be the typical Turkic haplotype under Z2125 found in Kyrgyz and Altaians", CTS6 is a branch of Z2122, not Z2125.


    Quote Originally Posted by MnM View Post
    Morocco is a western lapdog.
    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    Those Bronze Age samples are just red herrings to distract you from the actual arrivals of populations with Semitic ancestry. Don’t take the bait by focusing on the wrong samples, lol. He is passing off Bronze Age Levantines with no evidence of strong predynastic input, as “Semites“. This way, he can flip it around and say Proto-Semitic speakers and predynastics were more or less identical to the Bronze Age Levantines sampled so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    @Semitic Duwa

    Wonder what the resident Proto-Semite has to say about this. I thought unmixed Egyptians were supposed to be Abusir with less/zero Chl?

    In your view, does this prove you wrong, or is it just a coincidence () that M1 is absent in one of the three subsamples from Abusir, and rare overall?

    And don’t change your signature now, please. I’m looking forward to you looking more and more incompetent as more aDNA is published. Wish there was a way to speed this up. But the extra wait and seeing you with your pants down every day, kinda has its own appeal, too.

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Semitic Duwa For This Useful Post:

    kevinbrook (2016-03-24), Longbowman (2016-03-23), Wojewoda (2016-03-23)

  5. #113
    Established Member
    Evolutionary Biologist Wojewoda's Avatar
    Last Online
    2019-10-18 @ 15:51
    Join Date
    2009-10-24
    Posts
    6,627
    Location
    Warsaw, Poland
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    I1 Z63+ S2078+ L1237-
    mtDNA
    U3a1a
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Poland

    Default

    Continuing this Ashina subtopic I paste another comment from Eurogenes:

    Quote Originally Posted by batman
    "Ashina" seems to be a common family-name (etnonym), defining å common tribe/etnicity rather than than a common geographical, cultural or professional denominator.

    The word-stem 'as' is known as an etnic identitet om several IS branches, such as As-vin (vedic), Az-eri (persian), As-er (Scandia) and As-ir (Norse). Today this 'tribal' identificator is reflected in geonyms like As-ia, As-tra-khan, Azer-bad, As-gar-bad, As-gar, As-gard and As-hov.

    Similar to the vedic Asvinas we find the Ashinas to be an etnicity/tribe whose branches have been spread, later to be unified as a "federation" (clan), due to a common danger.

    Its an old idea that the unification of the "ashina-clan" was a 'tribal reunification" rather than a purely political construct, based on common geography but random relations under occasional circumstances.

    The Kok-turs/turks seem to be close relatives of the Onugurs, altso known as Ounu-gard, Vana-gar(ia) and Hunagar(ia).

    The (re-)unofication orchestrated by the Ashina dynasty have some obvious connection to 'huns', also known as 'vends' and 'venedae, refering to populations of eastern Europe/Russia.

    Classical sources reffers to both ouan/huns/vends/vanir and aser/azeri/asvinas as "gentes" and "aets" we may have to view them both as 'etnicities'.

    Seemingly, the post-persian Bactrians/Tocharians seem to have formed a federacy aimed to reconstruct the old, pre-war societies, relationships and/or trade-routes, based on 'kinship', friendship and a common background.

    The Ashinas were obviously instrumental in this reunification, creating the first "union-of-kin" (tur-ki, turk-men), as ashinas and and ounu-garians/unu-gurs/ungurs.

    Since the ouna/hunic/venedae have obvious ties to the ouan/van/ven/vend and ven-eti - there's obviously an Uralian connection between the Venedae and the Ungurs, rising the issue of the Ashina possibly being uralic speakers of 'vendic' origin, that once formed their own dynasty, kingdom and tribe in the east, creating the stem and outliers of hg Q.

    This blog is the most relevant if one wants to continue along this dangerous path:

    "In Nomine Jassa".


  6. #114
    Established Member
    I'll set you a-quiver Longbowman's Avatar
    Last Online
    Today @ 02:56
    Join Date
    2015-01-26
    Posts
    851
    Location
    Suffolk, England
    Gender
    Age
    26
    Y-DNA
    E1b1b1c1a
    mtDNA
    K1a1b1a
    Race
    Caucasoid
    Phenotype
    Mediterranid
    Metaethnos
    Desert Nomad
    Ethnicity
    Ashkephardic
    Phenotype
    Judaean Highlander
    Politics
    None
    Religion
    Sadducee
    GEDmatch
    M392217
    United Kingdom Italy England Wales United States Israel

    Default

    You are a man obsessed.
    Click here for definitive proof that the holocaust never happened!

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePendragon View Post
    I am technically not schizophrenic
    Quote Originally Posted by Blodeuwedd View Post
    Please remember that I'm carrying a loaded gun. Next time, you'd better shift your tone.
    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    I think it would be awesome to be Cartman [...] translated to real life, Cartman is [...] Donald Trump
    http://i67.tinypic.com/2djcahy.jpg

  7. #115
    Established Member
    Evolutionary Biologist Wojewoda's Avatar
    Last Online
    2019-10-18 @ 15:51
    Join Date
    2009-10-24
    Posts
    6,627
    Location
    Warsaw, Poland
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    I1 Z63+ S2078+ L1237-
    mtDNA
    U3a1a
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Poland

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    You are a man obsessed.
    Well, just interested.

    By the way do Ash-kenazi Jews come from As-gard?

  8. #116
    Established Member
    I'll set you a-quiver Longbowman's Avatar
    Last Online
    Today @ 02:56
    Join Date
    2015-01-26
    Posts
    851
    Location
    Suffolk, England
    Gender
    Age
    26
    Y-DNA
    E1b1b1c1a
    mtDNA
    K1a1b1a
    Race
    Caucasoid
    Phenotype
    Mediterranid
    Metaethnos
    Desert Nomad
    Ethnicity
    Ashkephardic
    Phenotype
    Judaean Highlander
    Politics
    None
    Religion
    Sadducee
    GEDmatch
    M392217
    United Kingdom Italy England Wales United States Israel

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wojewoda View Post
    Well, just interested.

    By the way do Ash-kenazi Jews come from As-gard?
    I was never that big a fan of Stargate Atlantis.
    Click here for definitive proof that the holocaust never happened!

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePendragon View Post
    I am technically not schizophrenic
    Quote Originally Posted by Blodeuwedd View Post
    Please remember that I'm carrying a loaded gun. Next time, you'd better shift your tone.
    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    I think it would be awesome to be Cartman [...] translated to real life, Cartman is [...] Donald Trump
    http://i67.tinypic.com/2djcahy.jpg

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Longbowman For This Useful Post:

    Semitic Duwa (2016-03-24)

  10. #117
    Established Member
    Evolutionary Biologist Wojewoda's Avatar
    Last Online
    2019-10-18 @ 15:51
    Join Date
    2009-10-24
    Posts
    6,627
    Location
    Warsaw, Poland
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    I1 Z63+ S2078+ L1237-
    mtDNA
    U3a1a
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Poland

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    I was never that big a fan of Stargate Atlantis.
    Luckily it is possible that thanks to the advances in genomics reality will be even more entertaining than fiction.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Wojewoda For This Useful Post:

    Semitic Duwa (2016-03-24)

  12. #118
    Established Member
    Citizen Hallteks's Avatar
    Last Online
    2019-08-28 @ 22:21
    Join Date
    2011-02-08
    Posts
    237
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    N1c1 CTS7189
    mtDNA
    H4a1a1a
    Religion
    Pansai
    Finland Sweden Scania

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wojewoda View Post
    As for the hypothesis that "Ashina probably comes from one of the Saka languages of central Asia and means "blue"" this is related to Polish "siny" meaning "gray-blue, livid".
    Blue in Finnish is "sininen".
    From Proto-Finnic *sini, from an Indo-Iranian language. Cognates include Kurdish şîn, Middle Persian hšyn' ‎(xašēn, “blue”) (> خشین ‎(xašin)), Russian синий ‎(sinij), and Macedonian сина ‎(sina).
    Eurogenes Fi12
    Fennoscandiavian Fi13

  13. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Hallteks For This Useful Post:

    Padre Organtino (2016-03-25), Semitic Duwa (2016-03-25), Wojewoda (2016-03-25)

  14. #119
    Established Member
    Evolutionary Biologist Wojewoda's Avatar
    Last Online
    2019-10-18 @ 15:51
    Join Date
    2009-10-24
    Posts
    6,627
    Location
    Warsaw, Poland
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    I1 Z63+ S2078+ L1237-
    mtDNA
    U3a1a
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Poland

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallteks View Post
    Blue in Finnish is "sininen".
    From Proto-Finnic *sini, from an Indo-Iranian language. Cognates include Kurdish şîn, Middle Persian hšyn' ‎(xašēn, “blue”) (> خشین ‎(xašin)), Russian синий ‎(sinij), and Macedonian сина ‎(sina).
    In Polish "bruise, black eye" is "siniak". And "sina dal" means "far away".
    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2016-03-25 at 10:00.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Wojewoda For This Useful Post:

    Hallteks (2016-03-25)

  16. #120
    Established Member
    Mountain Nigger Padre Organtino's Avatar
    Last Online
    2016-05-13 @ 11:40
    Join Date
    2012-02-23
    Posts
    2,682
    Gender
    Age
    32
    Race
    Caucasian
    Phenotype
    Mtebid
    Metaethnos
    Colch-Iberian Wog
    Ethnicity
    Georgian

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wojewoda View Post
    In Polish "bruise, black eye" is "siniak". And "sina dal" means "far away".
    Same in Russian btw
    Dumb Post of the Year Award goes to....

    Quote Originally Posted by George1 View Post
    Lets took than the Iberian peninsula, 8 distant groups of IE was there Celtici Lusitanians Greeks Vandals Suevi Alani Goths and Italic people, only haplogroup G2a have there so many subgroups.
    The R1a have only one sugroup there the R1a1a1g2* and it is almost absent in that region
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamil Noukhaev aka ROnald Mcdonald View Post
    I will make all my best that all Georgians will be muredered with the maximum pain and maximum time of pain then use take you houses, churches as stripping clubs.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Padre Organtino For This Useful Post:

    Wojewoda (2016-03-25)

Page 12 of 27 FirstFirst ... 2 10 11 12 13 14 22 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Endogamous indian castes and diseases.
    By ashwinb in forum Ancestry & Health
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 2012-12-30, 16:47
  2. Hindu Upper Castes
    By Indocentrist in forum Asia & Oceania
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 2012-12-30, 16:14
  3. Morphology to Molecular Anthropology: Castes and Tribes of India
    By Italian Norman in forum Physical Anthropology
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2012-06-04, 17:59
  4. Is there really a difference between upper and lower castes in India?
    By Indian in forum General Genetics Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 2011-05-05, 06:21
  5. Is there a big difference between castes?
    By Indian in forum General Genetics Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 2011-02-26, 21:27

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
<