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Thread: R1a-Z93 among priestly castes of Hinduists and Jews.590 days old

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    Default R1a-Z93 among priestly castes of Hinduists and Jews.

    Two of the religions existing in modern times - Hinduism and Judaism - contain paternally inherited priestly castes.

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    The priestly caste is a social group responsible for officiating over sacrifices and leading prayers or other religious functions, particularly in nomadic and tribal societies.

    In some cases, as with the Brahmins of Vedic India and the Kohanim and Levites of ancient Israel, the caste was a hereditary one, with a person's position as a priest depending on his biological descent.
    In the case of Huinduism these are Brahmins:

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    Brahmin is a varna (caste) in Hinduism specialising as priests, teachers (acharya) and protectors of sacred learning across generations.

    Brahmins traditionally were responsible for religious rituals in temples, as intermediaries between temple deities and devotees, as well as rite of passage rituals such as solemnising a wedding with hymns and prayers.
    In the case of Judaism these are Kohens:

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    Kohen or cohen (or kohain; Hebrew: כֹּהֵן, "priest", pl. כֹּהֲנִים kohanim) is the Hebrew word for priest. Jewish kohanim are traditionally believed and halakhically required to be of direct patrilineal descent from the biblical Aaron.

    During the existence of the Temple in Jerusalem, kohanim performed the daily and holiday (Yom Tov) duties of sacrificial offerings. Today, kohanim retain a lesser though distinct status within Rabbinic and Karaite Judaism, and are bound by additional restrictions according to Orthodox Judaism.
    ... and Levites:

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    In Jewish tradition, a Levite (/ˈliːvaɪt/, Hebrew: לֵוִי, Modern Levi, Tiberian Lēwî ; "Attached") is a member of the Israelite Tribe of Levi, descended from Levi, the third son of Jacob and Leah.

    The Tribe of Levi served particular religious duties for the Israelites and had political responsibilities as well. In return, the landed tribes were expected to give tithe to support the Levites,[1] particularly the tithe known as the 'Maaser Rishon'. The Kohanim were the priests, who performed the work of holiness in the Temple. The Levites who were not Kohanim played music in the Temple or served as guards.
    R1a1-Z93 is present both among Brahmins:

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    In India, high frequencies of this haplogroup is observed in West Bengal Brahmins (72%)(Sengupta 2005) to the east, Konkanastha Brahmins (48%) (Sengupta 2005) to the west, Khatris (67%)(Underhill 2009) in the north and Iyenger Brahmins (31%)(Sengupta 2005) in the south
    ... and amang (Ashkenazi) Levites:

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    A 2003 study of the Y-chromosome by Behar et al. pointed to multiple origins for Ashkenasi Levites, a priestly class who comprise approximately 4% among the Ashkenazi Jews. It found that Haplogroup R1a1a (R-M17), uncommon in the Middle East or among Sephardi Jews, originating in South or Central Asia[where?] and dominant in Central Europe[where?] and Indian subcontinent at 30-65%, is present in over 50% of Ashkenazi Levites, while the rest of Ashkenazi Levites' paternal lineage is of certain Middle Eastern origin.
    So my question is: what was so special about R1a1-Z93 line that it found its way to these priestly castes in two quite different reqions of Asia (one Southern, one Western), of the two quite different people - one Indo-European and one Semitic - and of two quite different religions? Or was is just random accident.

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    Z93 is 5,000 years old, there were no Brahmins and there were no Levites back then. I don't see what's so surprising about Levites and Brahmins being R1a-Z93, the custodians of the Ka'ba are R1a-L657 (the most common Z93 branch in South Asia) and I don't see you asking the same questions.
    In fact, the analogy itself is inherently flawed as Levites aren't a priestly "caste" per se, they mainly assisted the Kohanim (the real priestly "caste") in their daily duties and guarded the temple.

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    In the late 6th century BC, Aryan King Cyrus built a temple to the Lord (Ahura Mazda) in Jerusalem and staffed it with R1a1 Zoroastrian priests.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aeon View Post
    In the late 6th century BC, Aryan King Cyrus built a temple to the Lord (Ahura Mazda) in Jerusalem and staffed it with R1a1 Zoroastrian priests.
    Nope.

    Aryan had no racial connotation back then. There's no evidence Indo-Iranians such as the Achaeminids or Sassanids, even with minor IE admixture, held high percentage of R1a1.

    Parthians were a bit different though.
    Last edited by An Shigao; 2016-02-11 at 18:43.

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    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    Nope.

    Aryan had no racial connotation back then. There's no evidence Indo-Iranians such as the Achaeminids or Sassanids, even with minor IE admixture, held high percentage of R1a1.

    Parthians were a bit different though.
    But it sounds so perfect "Aryan King Cyrus". like a melody almost
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    Ashkenazi Levite R1a-Z93 probably didn’t come from Greece or Anatolia as it is absent in Cyprus:

    Similarly in R1a, both the European Z282 component (3.0 %) and the counterpart Asian Z93 clade (1.1 %) occur. Notable is finding that none of the R1a-Z93 Cypriots carried the diagnostic Ashkenazi Levite DYS456 14 repeat YSTR allele.
    http://download.springer.com/static/...5c46ddab2b1307

    So Indo-Iranians could be the source. Judaism was influenced by Iranian religions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeon View Post
    In the late 6th century BC, Aryan King Cyrus built a temple to the Lord (Ahura Mazda) in Jerusalem and staffed it with R1a1 Zoroastrian priests.
    Your trolling skills suck, try harder tovarisch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastPole View Post
    So Indo-Iranians could be the source.
    it's absent in non-Ashkenazis, isn't the more obvious answer 'Slavs?'

    Judaism was influenced by Iranian religions.
    [citation needed]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    it's absent in non-Ashkenazis, isn't the more obvious answer 'Slavs?'
    R1a-Z93 isn't frequent in Slavs. A few Poles and Russians carry really basal clades of Z93, but these are not directly ancestral or closely related to Ashkenazi Z93.

    Z93 expanded into Asia from the Eastern European steppe during the Bronze Age, probably with the Proto-Indo-Iranians, so one way or another that's where Jewish Z93 is from. See map here...

    The Poltavka outlier

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastPole View Post
    Ashkenazi Levite R1a-Z93 probably didn’t come from Greece or Anatolia as it is absent in Cyprus:



    http://download.springer.com/static/...5c46ddab2b1307

    So Indo-Iranians could be the source. Judaism was influenced by Iranian religions.

    Ashkenazi and R1a-z93 connection may have come from Khazars. It's well accepted that Khazars of the steppes accepted Judaism.

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