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Thread: The origin of Slavs1447 days old

  1. #31
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    Results of a modern Albanian (one person, not average):

    Single population sharing:

    BA_Mycenaean_I9006 - 19.80273
    BA_Mycenaean_I9041 - 21.85234
    BA_Mycenaean_I9033 - 22.29248
    LBA_Hungary_BR2 - 24.01623
    LBA_Armenia_RISE397 - 24.95853
    CA_MarmaraSea_I1584 - 25.61602
    BA_Hungary_RISE483 - 26.49992
    BA_Anatolia_I2499 - 27.38666

    MIXED MODE:

    1) Without Early Medieval samples:

    BA_Mycenaean_I9041 54.95
    MBA_Armenia_RISE416 7.20
    CA_Iran_I1665b 6.95
    IA_EastGermanic_Kow55 6.05
    LBA_Hungary_BR2 5.70
    IA_EastGermanic_Mas5 5.50
    BA_Portugal_I0207 4.85
    BA_Anatolia_Kum4 3.35
    LBA_Sudovia_RISE598 2.40
    IA_LevantEgypt_3DRIF26 1.75
    BA_CreteArmenoi_I9123 0.65
    BB_Czechia_RISE567 0.65

    Restricted:

    BA_Mycenaean_I9041 55.15
    MBA_Armenia_RISE416 7.25
    CA_Iran_I1665b 7.00
    IA_EastGermanic_Kow55 6.85
    IA_EastGermanic_Mas5 5.70
    LBA_Hungary_BR2 5.50
    BA_Portugal_I0207 4.95
    BA_Anatolia_Kum4 3.45
    LBA_Sudovia_RISE598 2.30
    IA_LevantEgypt_3DRIF26 1.85

    2) With Early Medieval samples included:

    BA_Mycenaean_I9041 55.05
    CA_Iran_I1665b 8.00
    EMA_Slavic_RISE569 7.45
    MBA_Armenia_RISE416 7.40
    BA_Portugal_I0207 5.45
    EMA_Slavic_RISE568 4.45
    IA_EastGermanic_Kow55 3.45
    LBA_Hungary_BR2 2.70
    IA_EastGermanic_Mas5 2.30
    BA_Anatolia_Kum4 2.20
    IA_LevantEgypt_3DRIF26 1.20
    BA_Levant_I1730 0.25
    BB_Czechia_RISE567 0.10

    Restricted:

    BA_Mycenaean_I9041 55.15
    CA_Iran_I1665b 8.00
    EMA_Slavic_RISE569 7.70
    MBA_Armenia_RISE416 7.35
    BA_Portugal_I0207 5.45
    EMA_Slavic_RISE568 4.30
    IA_EastGermanic_Kow55 3.70
    LBA_Hungary_BR2 2.40
    IA_EastGermanic_Mas5 2.35
    BA_Anatolia_Kum4 2.15
    IA_LevantEgypt_3DRIF26 1.45

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  4. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    IA_EastGermanic_Mas5 6.60
    On what basis you've labeled this sample as "EastGermanic"?

  5. #33
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    Modern Estonians (average):

    Closest single populations:

    HG_Latvia_HG3 - 10.71026
    HG_Karelia_I0211 - 14.86674
    EMA_Balto-Slav_Niem34 - 17.55858
    HG_Ukraine_HG1 - 23.74453
    CCC_Estonia_MA975 - 24.46535
    N1_DnieprDonets_Vovnigi2 - 24.87025
    BA_Mezhovskaya_RISE523 - 25.79632
    CWC_Estonia_MA969 - 26.86596

    Mixed mode:

    HG_Karelia_I0211 58.70 %
    LBA_Denmark_RISE276 13.85 %
    EMA_Balto-Slav_Niem34 13.00 %
    LBA_Sudovia_RISE598 7.20 %
    HG_Latvia_HG3 3.05 %
    BA_Potapovka_I0246 1.65 %
    LBA_Hungary_BR2 1.10 %
    BA_Hungary_RISE371 0.75 %
    N_Iran_I1290 0.45 %
    IA_Kazakhstan_Is2 0.25 %

    Estonians are Non-Slavic, and they get very low BR2 and quite low RISE598.

    I am sure that modern Lithuanians and Latvians get much more of RISE598.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Panthalika View Post
    On what basis you've labeled this sample as "EastGermanic"?
    1) It is Wielbark culture, 2) its autosomal results look Germanic-like.

  6. #34
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    Adding Kudrukula2_MA974_Estonia_CCC changes the results (it replaces HG_Karelia_I0211 as the main ancestry of Estonians), but Kudrukula2 is low coverage, so I'm not sure how accurate this is.

    CCC = Comb Ceramic Culture.

  7. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    1) It is Wielbark culture, 2) its autosomal results look Germanic-like.
    1) that's not an argument.
    2) show them.

  8. #36
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    Early Slav RISE568 gets (when modeled as a mix of older populations:

    RISE568

    LBA_Sudovia_RISE598 67.65
    IA_EastGermanic_Mas5 25.70
    IA_EastGermanic_Kow25 3.65
    IA_EastGermanic_Kow45 0.55
    BA_Hungary_RISE254 0.25

    BA_Afanasievo_RISE509 0.20
    MN1_Latvia_Zvej26 0.20
    BA_Ireland_Rathlin1 0.15
    IA_EastGermanic_Kow55 0.15
    Malta_Siberia 0.15
    MEG_Iberia_I0407 0.15
    BA_Mezhovskaya_RISE525 0.10
    BA_Poltavka_I0440 0.10
    BA_Sintashta_RISE395 0.10
    BA_Srubnaya_I0232 0.10
    CA_Iberia_I1303 0.10
    EBA_Russia_RISE555 0.10
    IA_Altai_RISE600 0.10
    BA_Afanasievo_RISE510 0.05
    BA_Karasuk_RISE493 0.05
    BA_Okunevo_RISE516 0.05
    BA_Srubnaya_I0234 0.05
    CA_Iberia_I1280 0.05
    CWC_Germany_I0103 0.05
    IA_CelticBriton_HI1 0.05
    IA_Kazakhstan_Ze6 0.05
    IA_ScythianPazyryk_Be9 0.05
    LN1_Latvia_Zvej28 0.05

    Restricted:

    RISE568

    LBA_Sudovia_RISE598 69.75
    IA_EastGermanic_Mas5 29.50
    IA_EastGermanic_Kow25 0.75

    ====================

    But RISE568 is a low coverage sample (RISE569 is of much better quality):

    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/0...m-bohemia.html

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Panthalika View Post
    2) show them.
    Here are their K36 results (admixtures from left to right: Amerindian to West Med):

    IA_EastGermanic_Kow22,0,0,0,1.34,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,9 .81,18.56,8.09,0,0,0,0,0,0,39.88,0,22.31,0,0,0,0,0 ,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    IA_EastGermanic_Kow25,4.06,2.04,0.12,2.63,0,30.03, 0,0,0,0,0,0,3.26,9.16,2.99,0,0,0,0,0,0,19.74,0.43, 23.73,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.91,0,0.9,0
    IA_EastGermanic_Kow45,2.06,0,3.42,9.05,0,10.25,0,0 ,0,0,18.86,0,10.53,3.68,0,7.61,0,0,0,0,0,5.51,0,16 .86,0,0,0,0,0,0,12.12,0,0.04,0,0,0
    IA_EastGermanic_Kow55,0.32,0,0,5.33,0,15.71,0,0,7. 77,0,12.56,0,6.35,4.68,3.08,4.8,0.02,0,0,0,0,21.06 ,0,11.24,0,0,0,0,0,1.38,0,2.13,0,0,0,3.59
    IA_EastGermanic_Mas5,0,0,0,0,0,24.69,0,0,2.19,0,0, 0,14.69,0,13.58,0,0,1.31,0,0,0,0,0,42.74,0,0,0,0,0 ,0,0,0,0.80,0,0,0


    Use this tool to see their genetic affinities to modern populations:

    http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm
    Last edited by Litvin; 2017-08-14 at 16:18.

  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    Here are their K36 results (admixtures from left to right: Amerindian to West Med):
    I've downloaded it, applied PCA sphering and calculated Euclidean distance to the nearest samples for:

    Mas_5_
    5,40011805549369 I0234_Srubnaya
    6,24930575103961 Latvia_LN1__zvej28_
    6,25114539829110 Kow_25
    6,26656734137489 RISE386_Sintashta
    6,30702636962117 6DRIF3_Gladiator_York

    Kowalewko_22_
    3,42574947746131 I0359_Srubnaya
    3,44973414058716 I0235_Srubnaya
    3,44973414058716 I0358_Srubnaya
    3,62823041759318 Germany_EBA_I0164
    3,68447559833870 Germany_CWC_I0106

    Kowalewko_45_
    3,92090209352070 Germany_BB_I0112
    3,95849632123225 Hungary_BA_BR1_
    4,23849391199757 Germany_Unetice_I0803
    4,28665189719822 RISE503_Andronovo
    4,43631133907646 Ardu2_MA969_Estonia_CWC

    Kow_26_
    5,48944713270244 Germany_MBA__RISE47
    6,62407514041698 I0430_Srubnaya
    6,81953645804735 NO3423_AngloSaxon_Teesside
    6,97301417684301 Sope_MA826_Estonia_CWC
    6,97641267448346 I0246_Potapovka

    Kow_55
    12,7968119672600 Ardu1_MA968_LOWx_Estonia_CWC
    12,8233017073861 RISE523_Mezhovskaya_BA_
    12,8868604189544 Germany_BB_I0059
    12,8973163596805 Hinxton5_Anglosaxon
    12,9001586713829 I0423_Srubnaya

    Kow_25
    5,69447462455621 6DRIF3_Gladiator_York
    5,78533647285421 Niemcza_34
    6,11416724948787 I0234_Srubnaya
    6,22805982367332 Hinxton2_Anglosaxon
    6,25114539829110 Mas_5_

    Niemcza_34
    4,40298118535311 Loschbour
    4,49915122454586 Sweden_Ajvide58_
    4,56788595059912 Germany_CWC_I0103
    4,72045045052593 6DRIF3_Gladiator_York
    4,74416047240334 Hungary_BA_BR1_
    How did you concluded that they are "Germanic"?
    Don't you think that something is wrong if the distance between Kow_55 and the nearest sample is bigger than between Kowalewko_22_ and Natufian__NameI1072_ (12,6228236835198)?
    Don't you think that something is very wrong if the Loschbour is the closest sample to Niemcza_34?

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  11. #38
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    They are "screening results" so might be too low coverage. But that's all we have so far.

    Don't you think that something is very wrong if the Loschbour is the closest sample to Niemcza_34?
    No, because Niemcza_34 is very Baltic genetically and Balts have the highest % of WHG.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Panthalika View Post
    How did you concluded that they are "Germanic"?
    Even your results show it:

    Kow_25:
    5,69447462455621 6DRIF3_Gladiator_York ---> this is Germanic gladiator
    6,22805982367332 Hinxton2_Anglosaxon

    Kow_55:
    12,8868604189544 Germany_BB_I0059
    12,8973163596805 Hinxton5_Anglosaxon

    Kow_26:

    5,48944713270244 Germany_MBA__RISE47
    6,81953645804735 NO3423_AngloSaxon_Teesside

    Mas_5:
    6,25114539829110 Kow_25
    6,30702636962117 6DRIF3_Gladiator_York

    Kow_22:
    3,62823041759318 Germany_EBA_I0164
    3,68447559833870 Germany_CWC_I0106

    Kow_45:
    3,92090209352070 Germany_BB_I0112
    Last edited by Litvin; 2017-08-14 at 19:40.

  12. #39
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    Gladiator 6DRIF3 - similarity to modern populations:

    86% is not Scotland, but England_Cumberland, 2nd Holland (85%), 3rd Denmark (84%) & Scotland (84%):



    ^^^ This gladiator was mixed Celto-Germanic, but his Y-DNA was Germanic R1b-U106.

    He could be even ca. 50% or more Germanic (the rest of his ancestry was maybe Pictish).
    Last edited by Litvin; 2017-08-14 at 19:50.

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    Niemcza_34 is Medieval - and it is a Slavic sample, but genetically quite "Baltoid-Finnoid".

    - - - Updated - - -

    As for Anglo-Saxons, Hinxton5 is very clearly mixed with Celtic ancestry.

    But the remaining two Hinxtons are probably unmixed (or slightly mixed).

    Northumbrian - NO3423_AngloSaxon_Teesside - might be partially Celtic.
    Last edited by Litvin; 2017-08-14 at 19:55.

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