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Thread: The origin of Slavs846 days old

  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioterus View Post
    Ah, yesss, she tries, she tries. Those pesky slavs need to know their place!
    In the PIE Urheimat?





    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2017-10-12 at 10:24.

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  4. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wojewoda View Post
    In the PIE Urheimat?
    It was predicted by linguists long ago. For example Kortland:

    Starting from the linguistic evidence and trying to fit the pieces into a coherentwhole, we arrive at the following picture. The best candidate for the original IndoEuropean homeland is the territory of the Sredny Stog culture in the eastern Ukraine.

    The Indo-Europeans who remained after the migrations became speakers of Balto-Slavic.
    http://www.kortlandt.nl/publications/art111e.pdf

    3000 BC is the time period when most likely proto-Slavic originated according to Oleg Trubachyov who stresses uninterrupted origin of Slavic (which excludes mixing and development outside PIE homeland IMO):
    Currently, there is an objective tendency to deepen the dating of ancient Indo-European dialects. This also applies to Slavonic as one of the Indo-European dialects. However, the question now is not that the history of Slavonic may be measured by the scale of the II to III millenniums B.C. but that we can hardly date the ‘emergence’ or ‘separation’ of proto-Slavonic or proto-Slavonic dialects from Indo-European dialects because of the proper uninterrupted Indo-European origin of Slavonic.
    The latter belief is in line with the Meillet’s indication that Slavic is an Indo-European language of archaic type, vocabulary and grammar of which has not experienced shocks in contrast to, for example, the Greek (vocabulary)
    Trubačёv, O. N. 2003. Ėtnogenez i kul’tura drevnejščix slavjan: Lingvističeskie issledovanija.
    Moskva: “Nauka”.


    Looks like around 3000 BC Slavs started to expand from their homeland which was also PIE homeland.

    Now it seems to be confirmed by discovering R1a-M417 in Late Sredny Stog Dereivka culture, which overlaps with Slavic homeland, and by its links with CWC:

    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/0...22991527525496

    Dereivka yellow circle:


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  6. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jassa.org
    If you are wondering about all those dots in northern France by Calais, they may be of the Morini. Morin is obviously also a name ending in -in and refers to people who dwell by the sea. The name for sea, i.e., Latin mare is Indo-European but only in Celtic and Slavic is it expressed with an “o” – compare old Slavic morje or today’s morze or Welsh môr or Breton and Cornish mor with the Germanic mar, marsh or Latin mare.
    Morini on the map:

    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2017-10-12 at 14:42.

  7. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wojewoda View Post
    In the PIE Urheimat?





    That's her problem, if she insists in pushing us away from Oder-Vistula, she can't help but accept we're the direct PIE descended

    That or an out of Mars.
    and the IEEE Milestone for breaking the Enigma Code goes to... Polish Cipher Bureau 1932-39

    “We know each other,” he agreed. “They say that you follow in my steps.”
    “I go my own way. But you, you had never, until just now, looked behind you. You turned back today for the first time.”
    Geralt remained silent. Tired, he had nothing to say. “How... How will it happen?” he asked her at last, coldly and without emotion. “I will take you by the hand,” she replied, looking him straight in the eye. “I will take you by the hand and lead you across the meadow, through a cold and wet fog.” “And after? What is there beyond the fog?” “Nothing,” she replied, smiling. “After that, there is nothing.”
    ― Andrzej Sapkowski
    Świat się zmienia, słońce zachodzi, a wódka się kończy [The world is changing, sun is setting and we're running out of Vodka.]
    ― Andrzej Sapkowski

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    Some nice maps illustrating different theories on the origns of Slavs:



    (seems to make sense because of the presence of R1a-M417 both among Slavs and among Aryans)



    (nazis )



    (see here)





    (see here)
    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2017-10-31 at 18:55.

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    ^ to understand Slavic ethnogenesis we need to answer the I2a-L621 question. The Carpathian urheimat might be tempting for this sole reason. Lusatian culture as one of the layers of what has been finally formed by I2a-L621 founder's effect. Any R1a- markers's founder effect to accompany mine in same time period?
    and the IEEE Milestone for breaking the Enigma Code goes to... Polish Cipher Bureau 1932-39

    “We know each other,” he agreed. “They say that you follow in my steps.”
    “I go my own way. But you, you had never, until just now, looked behind you. You turned back today for the first time.”
    Geralt remained silent. Tired, he had nothing to say. “How... How will it happen?” he asked her at last, coldly and without emotion. “I will take you by the hand,” she replied, looking him straight in the eye. “I will take you by the hand and lead you across the meadow, through a cold and wet fog.” “And after? What is there beyond the fog?” “Nothing,” she replied, smiling. “After that, there is nothing.”
    ― Andrzej Sapkowski
    Świat się zmienia, słońce zachodzi, a wódka się kończy [The world is changing, sun is setting and we're running out of Vodka.]
    ― Andrzej Sapkowski

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugevit View Post
    I don't think this map is accurate. The region of western Polessie - Pripyat Marshes- is beautiful. I recommend you to watch a documentary on nature of western Polessie. Some people call it the Amazon of Europe. The region is flooded in spring. It has little fertile land to sustain large population. More southern area towards northern Carpathians has plenty fertile land and sunnier weather. Likely it was the place of original Slavic home-land from which ancestors Slavs began to migrate in the Balkans, Poland, Slovakia, Czechia, Lusatia, Polabia. And Russia.
    I don't see any contradiction. The marshes are in between the Vistula and Dnieper. It would logically follow that the centre of Slavs be in a triangulation between the Western, Southern and Eastern branches. Perhaps Balts would serve as "Northern Slavs".

    In any case, a map illustrating diffusion from the marshes by the Proto-Slavs ought to be preceded with arrows from the Indo-Aryan Urheimat. This is the only Satem family in geographic Europe, although demographically speaking, Balto-Slavs belong more to the Subcontinent than the Continent. (Funny enough, Europe is the actual Subcontinent, with Eurasia being the true Continent.) Tocharians crisscrossed their path from Centum Europe.
    Last edited by Auduid; 2017-10-31 at 21:17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioterus View Post
    That's her problem, if she insists in pushing us away from Oder-Vistula, she can't help but accept we're the direct PIE descended

    That or an out of Mars.
    Another one of your White Afrocentrisms. Chicken or the egg? Slav or Indo-Aryan? Sorry, but Satemism as Indo-Europeanism doesn't cut it. Your half coexists with us Centum folks and always have.

    You can annoy the Hindus and Buddhists with claims to have originated the Rig Veda culture, but that's an internal Satem problem. We Centum have similar chicken vs egg problems, enough to not put up with your pseudoscientific shit imposed upon us. Sure, it may seem funny to claim Greek and Roman civilization came from German and Celt origins, but I don't care who made who. At least I have a level enough brain to not claim that Europeans are a colony of Tocharians, because that's what you are saying about your own kind with respect to the Indo-Aryan roots.

    It would be more profitable for you to debate whether Slavs or Balts in one area, or Indians vs Aryans in another, came first. At least that's more comparable to the European debate.
    Last edited by Auduid; 2017-10-31 at 21:20.

  13. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auduid View Post
    I don't see any contradiction. The marshes are in between the Vistula and Dnieper. It would logically follow that the centre of Slavs be in a triangulation between the Western, Southern and Eastern branches. Perhaps Balts would serve as "Northern Slavs".

    In any case, a map illustrating diffusion from the marshes by the Proto-Slavs ought to be preceded with arrows from the Indo-Aryan Urheimat. This is the only Satem family in geographic Europe, although demographically speaking, Balto-Slavs belong more to the Subcontinent than the Continent. (Funny enough, Europe is the actual Subcontinent, with Eurasia being the true Continent.) Tocharians crisscrossed their path from Centum Europe.
    Slavs are numerous in eastern Europe. The marshes could not sustain large population. Polessie is forest , water, swamps. Take a look. That's Pripyat Marshes : http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...=1#post1320765

    Further south has plenty fertile soil. It's right side of Dnieper river. Most scholars place this region as Slavic home-land.
    Last edited by Rugevit; 2017-11-01 at 03:37.

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    That's actually what I meant. Thanks!

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