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Thread: The origin of Slavs790 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orialix View Post
    4000? I cannot rule it out, but let us keep in mind that Slavic and Batlic languages have the same word (i.e. of the same origin) for iron. Thus I have some doubts as of whether they may have split before iron started being used in Northern Europe (and that, AFAIK, happened around 3000 years ago, although you can never tell if there is something about it that archaeologists have not found out yet).




    That might be true as Baltists fail to reconstruct a Common Proto-Baltic - so different are remnants of Old Prussian from East Baltic languages.
    But some claim that:

    Baltic names of iron were obviously borrowed from Slavic (Let. gelezis, Lit.dzèlzs).
    "The Names of Metals in the Turkic and Indo-European Languages"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wojewoda View Post
    Now, I cannot rule out it was either Slavs or Balts who were the donors of the word in question to the others, whilst remembering that it could have taken place only before 1st palatalization in Slavic. However, the explanation provided in the link is just not plausible.
    First off, Proto-Eeastern Baltic was not stranger to z and ž (suffice is to take a look at the very conservative Lithuanian phonology http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...nian_phonology). Thus if it had taken the word for iron from Slavic, it would have not replaced it with g (which, as it seems, later morphed into dz in Latvian), but kept ž instead. That sound obviously developed in Slavic from g, while in Baltic it remained the way it was in Indoeuropean.
    Second, users of Proto-Slavic had no reason whatsoever to replace zerz with želěz-, as both ž and l were perfectly known to them. Thereby the common Balto-Slavic origin of the word still holds.

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    Migrations and language shifts as components of the Slavic spread:

    https://www.academia.edu/36296234/Jo..._Slavic_spread

    https://www.ff.cuni.cz/wp-content/up...arly-Slavs.pdf

    This is also interesting:



    - - - Updated - - -

    Divided by DNA. The uneasy relationship between archaeology and ancient genomics:

    https://www.nature.com/magazine-asse...18-03773-6.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orialix View Post
    Text
    What's your take on where proto-Slavic was spoken?
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    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orialix View Post
    Now, I cannot rule out it was either Slavs or Balts who were the donors of the word in question to the others, whilst remembering that it could have taken place only before 1st palatalization in Slavic. However, the explanation provided in the link is just not plausible.
    First off, Proto-Eeastern Baltic was not stranger to z and ž (suffice is to take a look at the very conservative Lithuanian phonology http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...nian_phonology). Thus if it had taken the word for iron from Slavic, it would have not replaced it with g (which, as it seems, later morphed into dz in Latvian), but kept ž instead. That sound obviously developed in Slavic from g, while in Baltic it remained the way it was in Indoeuropean.
    Second, users of Proto-Slavic had no reason whatsoever to replace zerz with želěz-, as both ž and l were perfectly known to them. Thereby the common Balto-Slavic origin of the word still holds.
    Yeah, dzelzs seems to be one of those words, where Lithuanian g gives Latvian dz and Russian zh.

    Gerve - Dzērve - Žuravļ (a type of bird)
    Gyvoti - Dzīvot - Žitj (to live)
    Geltonas - Dzeltens - Žoltij (yellow)
    ... and many more

    Similarly there is I think also k-c-č trio (Lith - Lat - Ru), that is a bit rarer but also present. For example - Vilkenas - Vilcēns - Volčara (little wolf).

    They must have come from some proto-Balto-Slavic most likely.

    Interesting in this regard is word "dzintars" (gyntaras, jantarj) - amber. If it was known from proto-BS, then in Slavic it should have given žantarj, which did not happen. It is possible though that in both Baltic and Slavic it was loan word from somewhere.

    Phoenician (jainitar, “sea-resin”) is an interesting option, but j->g in Baltic languages? Not likely I guess, because Baltic languages had j themselves.
    There was also no g->j in Slavic. I dont know of such cases.

    But maybe there was some other language that had g->j, similar sound change to what later happened to Sweddish. In which case Balts would borrow at stage of g, Slavs at stage of j.

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