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Thread: The origin of Slavs848 days old

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    @MMTB , holy shit what an autistic and obsessive nut-job you are!

    Thread closed temporarily because @MMTB is an autistic and obsessive nut-job.

    /Strike-breaking moderator
    “And, furthermore, that some people have a sex life and others don’t just because some are more attractive than others. I wanted to acknowledge that if people don’t have a sex life, it’s not for some moral reason, it’s just because they’re ugly. Once you’ve said it, it sounds obvious, but I wanted to say it.” — Michel Houellebecq

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  4. #182
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    One OT post deleted and thread reopened.

    Thread reopened.

    /mod
    “And, furthermore, that some people have a sex life and others don’t just because some are more attractive than others. I wanted to acknowledge that if people don’t have a sex life, it’s not for some moral reason, it’s just because they’re ugly. Once you’ve said it, it sounds obvious, but I wanted to say it.” — Michel Houellebecq

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    Abstract

    Climatic changes during the first half of the Common Era have been suggested to play a role in societal reorganizations in Europe1,2 and Asia3,4. In particular, the sixth century coincides with rising and falling civilizations1,2,3,4,5,6, pandemics7,8, human migration and political turmoil8,9,10,11,12,13. Our understanding of the magnitude and spatial extent as well as the possible causes and concurrences of climate change during this period is, however, still limited. Here we use tree-ring chronologies from the Russian Altai and European Alps to reconstruct summer temperatures over the past two millennia. We find an unprecedented, long-lasting and spatially synchronized cooling following a cluster of large volcanic eruptions in 536, 540 and 547 AD (ref. 14), which was probably sustained by ocean and sea-ice feedbacks15,16, as well as a solar minimum17. We thus identify the interval from 536 to about 660 AD as the Late Antique Little Ice Age. Spanning most of the Northern Hemisphere, we suggest that this cold phase be considered as an additional environmental factor contributing to the establishment of the Justinian plague7,8, transformation of the eastern Roman Empire and collapse of the Sasanian Empire1,2,5, movements out of the Asian steppe and Arabian Peninsula8,11,12, spread of Slavic-speaking peoples9,10 and political upheavals in China13.
    "Cooling and societal change during the Late Antique Little Ice Age from 536 to around 660 AD", Ulf Büntgen et al.
    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2018-02-11 at 07:59.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wojewoda View Post
    Which study is this from? Haven't seen it before.
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Which study is this from? Haven't seen it before.
    From some version of the Max Planck Institute team lead by Valtuena paper on yersinia pestis spread: "Plague likely a Stone Age arrival to central Europe".

    Here is the paper, but it might be older version from 2016 as the picture is different.

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    Proto-West Slavs in the eastern zone of Przeworsk culture?:

    http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...=1#post1335442

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    Has anyone figured out where the proto-Slavic urheimat was yet? Should have been close to Lithuania, no? Poland is as good guess as any.
    ReactOS <--- support this project so that we can get rid of Windows!
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    “A wise man makes his own decisions; an ignorant man follows public opinion.” ― Chinese proverb

    “Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.” ― H. L. Mencken

    “The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.” ― Socrates

    “Damnant quod non intelligunt.” ― Latin proverb

    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Has anyone figured out where the proto-Slavic urheimat was yet? Should have been close to Lithuania, no? Poland is as good guess as any.
    Wherever we find the following Y-DNA subclades in ancient DNA, was probably the homeland of Proto-Slavs:

    (TMRCA estimates are from YFull)

    R1a-M458 - 4 subclades:

    PF7521>Y2604>L260 (formed 4600 ybp, TMRCA 2500 ybp)
    PF7521>Y2604>CTS11962>YP515 (formed 3200 ybp, TMRCA 2100 ybp)
    PF7521>Y2604>CTS11962>L1029 (formed 3200 ybp, TMRCA 2100 ybp)
    A11460 (formed 4700 ybp, TMRCA 2700 ybp)

    I2a-CTS10228 - 4 subclades:

    Y3120 (formed 3800 ybp, TMRCA 2300 ybp)
    Y3120>A2512 (formed 2300 ybp, TMRCA 2200 ybp)
    Y3120>Y4460 (formed 2300 ybp, TMRCA 2200 ybp)
    Y3120>S17250 (formed 2300 ybp, TMRCA 1850 ybp)

    R1a-CTS1211 (M558) - 13 subclades:

    Y35>CTS3402>Y2613>Y2609 (formed 3200 ybp, TMRCA 2400 ybp)
    Y35>CTS3402>YP237>YP582>YP578 (formed 2400 ybp, TMRCA 2400 ybp)
    Y35>CTS3402>YP237>YP951 (formed 3800 ybp, TMRCA 2500 ybp)
    Y35>CTS3402>YP237>YP235>YP234>YP295 (formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 2800 ybp)
    Y35>CTS3402>YP237>YP235>YP234>YP238 (formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 2800 ybp)
    Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>Y2902 (formed 4200 ybp, TMRCA 2500 ybp)
    Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>Y3301>L1280 (formed 4200 ybp, TMRCA 2300 ybp)
    Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>Y3301>S18681 (formed 4200 ybp, TMRCA 2400 ybp)
    Y35>YP4278 (formed 4200 ybp, TMRCA 1850 ybp)
    YP343>YP340>P278.2 (formed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 2200 ybp)
    YP343>YP340>YP371 (formed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 2300 ybp)
    YP343>YP3982 (formed 3700 ybp, TMRCA 2100 ybp)
    YP1019>YP1020 (formed 3600 ybp, TMRCA 2600 ybp)

    R1a-Z92 - 3 subclades:

    Z92>Y4459>YP5520 (formed 3500 ybp, TMRCA 2500 ybp)
    Z92>Y4459>YP617>YP573>YP569 (formed 3400 ybp, TMRCA 1900 ybp)
    Z92>Z685>Z1907>CTS9551>YP5611 (formed 3900 ybp, TMRCA 1950 ybp)

    R1b-Z2103 - 1 subclade:

    R1b-Y14300 (formed 4800 ybp, TMRCA 1800 ybp)
    Last edited by Litvin; 2018-03-19 at 04:36. Reason: Several changes made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    Wherever we find the following Y-DNA subclades in ancient DNA, was probably the homeland of Proto-Slavs:

    (TMRCA estimates are from YFull)

    R1a-Z280 - 16 subclades:

    R-YP5520 (formed 3500 ybp, TMRCA 2500 ybp)
    R-YP569 (formed 3400 ybp, TMRCA 1900 ybp)
    R-YP1020 (formed 3600 ybp, TMRCA 2600 ybp)
    R-YP3982 (formed 3700 ybp, TMRCA 2100 ybp)
    R-P278.2 (formed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 2200 ybp)
    R-YP371 (formed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 2300 ybp)
    R-YP4278 (formed 4200 ybp, TMRCA 1850 ybp)
    R-Y2609 (formed 3200 ybp, TMRCA 2400 ybp)
    R-YP578 (formed 2400 ybp, TMRCA 2400 ybp)
    R-YP951 (formed 3800 ybp, TMRCA 2500 ybp)
    R-YP295 (formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 2800 ybp)
    R-YP238 (formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 2800 ybp)
    R-Y2902 (formed 4200 ybp, TMRCA 2500 ybp)
    R-L1280 (formed 4200 ybp, TMRCA 2300 ybp)
    R-S18681 (formed 4200 ybp, TMRCA 2400 ybp)
    R-YP5611 (formed 3900 ybp, TMRCA 1950 ybp)

    R1a-M458 - 4 subclades:

    R-L260 (formed 4600 ybp, TMRCA 2500 ybp)
    R-YP515 (formed 3200 ybp, TMRCA 2100 ybp)
    R-L1029 (formed 3200 ybp, TMRCA 2100 ybp)
    R-A11460 (formed 4700 ybp, TMRCA 2700 ybp)

    I2a-CTS10228 - 4 subclades:

    I-Y3120 (formed 3800 ybp, TMRCA 2300 ybp)
    I-A2512 (formed 2300 ybp, TMRCA 2200 ybp)
    I-Y4460 (formed 2300 ybp, TMRCA 2200 ybp)
    I-S17250 (formed 2300 ybp, TMRCA 1850 ybp)

    R1b-Z2103 - 1 subclade:

    R-Y14300 (formed 4800 ybp, TMRCA 1800 ybp)
    So, this is the Slavic Soup of Ys? I do wonder if there was "a place" where the premixed R1as existed and a sudden influx* of I2a Carpathians finished the event called slavogenesis or I2as were a part of the slowly boiling brew for a long time.

    *I would also look for a founder effect of the dominant R1a subclade.
    and the IEEE Milestone for breaking the Enigma Code goes to... Polish Cipher Bureau 1932-39

    “We know each other,” he agreed. “They say that you follow in my steps.”
    “I go my own way. But you, you had never, until just now, looked behind you. You turned back today for the first time.”
    Geralt remained silent. Tired, he had nothing to say. “How... How will it happen?” he asked her at last, coldly and without emotion. “I will take you by the hand,” she replied, looking him straight in the eye. “I will take you by the hand and lead you across the meadow, through a cold and wet fog.” “And after? What is there beyond the fog?” “Nothing,” she replied, smiling. “After that, there is nothing.”
    ― Andrzej Sapkowski
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    I'm not entirely sure about R1b-Y14300 (formed 4800 ybp, TMRCA 1800 ybp).

    But this is what Gwozdz called "Eastern Euro type" of R1b-Z2103 on his website.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pioterus View Post
    So, this is the Slavic Soup of Ys? I do wonder if there was "a place" where the premixed R1as existed and a sudden influx* of I2a Carpathians finished the event called slavogenesis or I2as were a part of the slowly boiling brew for a long time. *I would also look for a founder effect of the dominant R1a subclade.
    Also those R1a-Z92 subclades could be assimilated from Balts. Z92 as a whole is mostly Baltic. CTS1211 is Balto-Slavic, but most of Slavic lineages are CTS3402+ (as you can see in my updated list).
    Last edited by Litvin; 2018-03-19 at 04:35.

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