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Thread: GEDmatch results of Samaritans.. what does this say about the pre-Islamic Levant?1273 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by tauromenion View Post
    I would estimate Ashkenazim to come up more like 70% Levantine if you use Samaritans rather than modern Lebanese.

    For Sicilians and Maltese to be similar to Ashkenazim it would have to mean that the original people of these islands were of significantly West Asian genetic origin but had absorbed an Italic element early on, otherwise 20% recent Near Eastern would be insufficient to create a population that resembled Ashkenazim, who may be closer to 60-70% Levantine if you use Samaritans as a reference (and the rest Italic).

    My guess is that when you only had the Sicanians, Elymians, and Sikels, the islands were more genetically West Asian than they are today, and then after the Greek colonization, they would have been less so. The 20% "recent" Levantine may have restored the islands to an artificially Ashkenazi-like position, as they are today.
    I don't think they had a major Arabic genetic impact.

    I come out as 50-50 Samaritan/North Italian sometimes, and I'm 3/4 AJ.
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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    I don't think they had a major Arabic genetic impact.

    I come out as 50-50 Samaritan/North Italian sometimes, and I'm 3/4 AJ.
    Samaritans seem halfway between Cyprus and modern Levantine Arabs. But even small shifts can change the Oracle results a lot.

    I am surprised you are not even more Levantine genetically given that you have Mesopotamian roots (Iraqi Jew) and are part Sephardi.

    What I was meaning in my other post is that the lack of IBD sharing between Sicilians/Maltese and Levantines but their PCA placement implies that the original people of the island were of West Asian stock in large part, because clearly, most of this is not recent at all.

    Do Ashkenazim have IBD sharing with Levant Arabs?

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    I don't understand what is Euro-shifted about Samaritans.

    They seem just like a more southern (a bit less CHG-like, a bit more ENF-like) version of Lebanese Christians or Druze.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lol_Race View Post
    I don't understand what is Euro-shifted about Samaritans.

    They seem just like a more southern (a bit less CHG-like, a bit more ENF-like) version of Lebanese Christians or Druze.
    They shift away from modern Levantine Arabs and toward Cyprus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tauromenion View Post
    They shift away from modern Levantine Arabs and toward Cyprus.
    They don't. That's just because the Dodecad oracles don't have a Lebanese or Samaritan samples, so they get their best fit with Cypriots.

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    Cypriots are hardly European from a genetic perspective. If you say Euro-shifted, I would presume you mean WHG/EHG-shifted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lol_Race View Post
    Cypriots are hardly European from a genetic perspective. If you say Euro-shifted, I would presume you mean WHG/EHG-shifted.
    Cypriots are halfway between Sicilians and Levantines if not slightly closer to the latter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tauromenion View Post
    but it makes us see that the ancient Levant was more European-like than today.
    Not really European-like. Samaritans are far from being European-like. "African" and "Eastern" ancestry might have increased indeed in the region (increasing the distant from Europeans), but this only makes the ancient Levant more European farmer-like or more Neolithic Anatolian farmer-like.

    But yeah, if Samaritans are a good proxy for the ancestors of Western Jews, then Ashkenazis Jews are at the very least 50% Levantine.
    By the way, Greek ancestry is as likely if not more likely than Italian for the main European side of Western Jews. Greeks being as heterogenous as Italians, we still need to know what the Greek part would have looked like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    what? His origin is unproven, just speculation, nothing more. He could have been from Yemen. Almost certainly not Levantine. Don't make stuff up. He was buried in the UK and they only even know he was MENA because of his bloodwork.
    A Levantine location is just the most likely (doesn't look North African nor Anatolian), or at least much more likely in a roman context than a far away land like Yemen. We can make speculations, yours is not Levantine, mine is one type of Levantine (with recent foreign ancestry). I include the roman province of Arabia as Levantine, despite being only partially so geographically.
    Interestingly, the roman era guy is sometimes modeled as Samaritan+Yemeni Jew. Doesn't mean he is literally that, but that he is somewhere in-between (or not at all, if Egyptian ancestry).

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    HarappaWorld is one of my favorite calculators. Cypriots score 6% NE Euro. Samaritans and Lebanese (excluding some urban Muslims) score 0.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukonin View Post
    By the way, Greek ancestry is as likely if not more likely than Italian for the main European side of Western Jews. Greeks being as heterogenous as Italians, we still need to know what the Greek part would have looked like.
    This isn't likely, because Jews do not score nearly enough NE European/Baltic type genes, while Greeks score so much that they come up on Oracles as 75% Sicilian, 25% Ukrainian/Russian/Belarusian.

    And Greeks who do not have much NE Euro, plot like Sicilians. And mixing Levantine with Aegean islander would place them too far east genetically.

    Also, IBD sharing is higher with northern Italy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lol_Race View Post
    HarappaWorld is one of my favorite calculators. Cypriots score 6% NE Euro. Samaritans and Lebanese (excluding some urban Muslims) score 0.
    Muslim Lebanese have very minor Norman and other West European input.

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