User Tag List

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 40

Thread: Berber thread1188 days old

  1. #21
    Established Member
    Molecular Biologist tauromenion's Avatar
    Last Online
    2019-09-15 @ 15:25
    Join Date
    2012-08-09
    Posts
    7,371
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    R1a1a
    mtDNA
    H
    Race
    Caucasoid
    Phenotype
    Mediterranid
    Politics
    Moderate.
    Italy Sicily-II Greece Portugal Israel Star of David Poland Cape Verde

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik View Post
    There is no evidence of Natufians coming in Africa, nor having contact with them.
    Untrue.

    Berbers have THREE main genetic affinities... Western Mediterranean, SW Asian, and Sub-Saharan African. What they lack is the Caucasus component, found in today's Middle Easterners, Balkanites, Italians and so on.

    1) A Sub-Saharan African component, stronger as you go west and south (i.e. southern Morocco has the most) but that is present in *all* North Africans. It may have been augmented by the slave trade, but there is no Berber nor Egyptian who doesn't have it.

    2) A Western Mediterranean component, shared with Sardinians, Spanish, Portuguese, and so on. This is really an ancient Neolithic Mediterranean component that is linked to, but removed from by several thousands of years, SW Asia.

    3) A gene flow from the east, reflecting more direct West and SW Asian affinities, but lacking a Caucasus component. This component could indeed be considered "Natufian".

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to tauromenion For This Useful Post:

    dddcc (2016-07-24), nee4speed111 (2016-07-24), TheMask (2016-07-24), Zebruh (2016-07-24)

  3. # ADS
    Advertisement bot
    Join Date
    2013-03-24
    Posts
    All threads
       
     

  4. #22
    Established Member
    Arubano y Curasoleno
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2012-11-25
    Posts
    3,953
    Location
    The Netherlands.
    Gender
    Age
    22
    Y-DNA
    J2 (West Asia)
    mtDNA
    L3e2b1a2 (SSA)
    Metaethnos
    Dutch Caribbean
    Ethnicity
    Aruban/Curacaon
    Politics
    Duartian Republicanism
    Religion
    Atheist
    Aruba Netherlands Antilles Aruba Netherlands Antilles Netherlands Dominica

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dddcc View Post
    I'm very novice in the anthropology stuff, and when I searched in the web I found very contradictory conclusions about the identity of the first inhabitants of North-Africa.
    What is the newest accepted theory?
    Was North-Africa first inhabited by L-mtDNA, E1a-YDNA rich people with SSA type or it was first inhabited by peoples related to WHG bearing mt-DNA H and Y-DNA I ?
    I don't think that the first inhabitans were Black. Atleast I do not know.
    "Los blancos, morenos, cobrizos, cruzados, marchando serenos, unidos y osados, la Patria salvemos de viles tiranos, y al mundo mostremos que somos hermanos. "Juan Pablo Duarte

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Shaquille For This Useful Post:

    dddcc (2016-07-24)

  6. #23
    Established Member
    CIVIS ROMANVS SVM
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2010-11-06
    Posts
    2,694
    Gender
    Phenotype
    med - MENA
    Religion
    Physics

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by searching View Post
    How come whenever someone post pictures of Berbers or Northern Africans of Darker Complexion, it has to ALWAYS be stressed that it's from "Sub-Saharan Slavery" ancestry?? We know history
    It's an answer to the statement that Tuaregs are particularly similar to Fulanis (which is inaccurate) and that Tuaregs still practice some kind of slavery until today (which most people are unaware of). It's not just about complexion by the way, it's also about hair texture, craniofacial traits and body types/proportions.

    If you want to balance things out, Northern Europeans were also enslaved in North Africa, so if one finds a picture of a Swedish model-looking "Berber", feel free to add it to this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by dddcc View Post
    Who were the first inhabitants of North-Africa?
    The first modern Homo Sapiens date back to MSA (Middle Stone Age) Africa over 100.000 years ago, before the OoA. They were replaced many times by many different African populations (multiple extinctions, bottlenecks, expansions) over the course of several 10.000 years. It's called the Aterian culture (140.000 to 30.000 years ago). There is very likely no continuity with the following Iberomaurusian culture (starting 20.000 years ago), Aterian culture disappearing (with its people) during the Ice Age.
    Iberomaurusian culture is probably the start of modern North Africa as we know it (with heavy Eurasian influence), although like many Eurasian and African populations, modern Maghrebis/Berbers originated much later during the Holocene (less than 10.000 years ago) with very likely siginificant influence from the Neolithic revolution.


    Quote Originally Posted by tauromenion View Post

    1) A Sub-Saharan African component, stronger as you go west and south (i.e. southern Morocco has the most) but that is present in *all* North Africans. It may have been augmented by the slave trade, but there is no Berber nor Egyptian who doesn't have it.
    Southern Morocco, when removing outliers is actually quite similar to the rest. Also, you can't just lump all the African in one group, especially since African components are as much divergent from each other (if not more) as Eurasian components.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaquille View Post
    I don't think that the first inhabitans were Black. Atleast I do not know.
    108K ago Aterian girl "Bouchra":


    Jebel Irhoud (160ka) too is very archaic and quite distant from any modern human (thought to be Neanderthal, it's actually a very early modern human (very similar to contemporary Skhul and Qafzeh specimens in Israel):




    Anatomically modern "black" tropical Africans arrived later, but they very likely preceded Iberomaurusians in the late Aterian period (until 30.000 years ago).
    Last edited by Tsukonin; 2016-07-24 at 09:34.

  7. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Tsukonin For This Useful Post:

    dddcc (2016-07-24), nee4speed111 (2016-07-24), Shaquille (2016-07-24), SomaliSuldaan (2016-07-24)

  8. #24
    QBS Banned
    Molecular Biologist
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2016-01-25
    Posts
    1,667
    Location
    Nazret/Adama
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    V32 (East Cushite)
    mtDNA
    L0a1* (Nigga blood)
    Phenotype
    Aethiopid
    Metaethnos
    Cushite
    Ethnicity
    Somali
    Politics
    Anti-Bantu
    Religion
    Greater Somalia
    Somaliland Djibouti Canada Yemen Arab League

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukonin View Post
    It's an answer to the statement that Tuaregs are particularly similar to Fulanis (which is inaccurate) and that Tuaregs still practice some kind of slavery until today (which most people are unaware of). It's not just about complexion by the way, it's also about hair texture, craniofacial traits and body types/proportions.

    If you want to balance things out, Northern Europeans were also enslaved in North Africa, so if one finds a picture of a Swedish model-looking "Berber", feel free to add it to this thread.



    The first modern Homo Sapiens date back to MSA (Middle Stone Age) Africa over 100.000 years ago, before the OoA. They were replaced many times by many different African populations (multiple extinctions, bottlenecks, expansions) over the course of several 10.000 years. It's called the Aterian culture (140.000 to 30.000 years ago). There is very likely no continuity with the following Iberomaurusian culture (starting 20.000 years ago), Aterian culture disappearing (with its people) during the Ice Age.
    Iberomaurusian culture is probably the start of modern North Africa as we know it (with heavy Eurasian influence), although like many Eurasian and African populations, modern Maghrebis/Berbers originated much later during the Holocene (less than 10.000 years ago) with very likely siginificant influence from the Neolithic revolution.




    Southern Morocco, when removing outliers is actually quite similar to the rest. Also, you can't just lump all the African in one group, especially since African components are as much divergent from each other (if not more) as Eurasian components.



    108K ago Aterian girl "Bouchra":


    Jebel Irhoud (160ka) too is very archaic and quite distant from any modern human (thought to be Neanderthal, it's actually a very early modern human (very similar to contemporary Skhul and Qafzeh specimens in Israel):




    Anatomically modern "black" tropical Africans arrived later, but they very likely preceded Iberomaurusians in the late Aterian period (until 30.000 years ago).
    When did E-M81 proto berbers arrive? And did they(E-M81 males) come directly from the Horn or Egypt?

  9. #25
    Established Member
    Molecular Biologist Zebruh's Avatar
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2016-01-05
    Posts
    781
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    z (ancient Alantean)
    mtDNA
    bra
    Race
    Quadracial
    Metaethnos
    Equidae
    Ethnicity
    Zebra
    Politics
    Don't trust Hillary
    Religion
    Agnostic
    Holy Roman Empire United States African Union(OAS) European Union Federal Republic of Central America Kurdistan

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukonin View Post
    It's an answer to the statement that Tuaregs are particularly similar to Fulanis (which is inaccurate) and that Tuaregs still practice some kind of slavery until today (which most people are unaware of). It's not just about complexion by the way, it's also about hair texture, craniofacial traits and body types/proportions.

    If you want to balance things out, Northern Europeans were also enslaved in North Africa, so if one finds a picture of a Swedish model-looking "Berber", feel free to add it to this thread.



    The first modern Homo Sapiens date back to MSA (Middle Stone Age) Africa over 100.000 years ago, before the OoA. They were replaced many times by many different African populations (multiple extinctions, bottlenecks, expansions) over the course of several 10.000 years. It's called the Aterian culture (140.000 to 30.000 years ago). There is very likely no continuity with the following Iberomaurusian culture (starting 20.000 years ago), Aterian culture disappearing (with its people) during the Ice Age.
    Iberomaurusian culture is probably the start of modern North Africa as we know it (with heavy Eurasian influence), although like many Eurasian and African populations, modern Maghrebis/Berbers originated much later during the Holocene (less than 10.000 years ago) with very likely siginificant influence from the Neolithic revolution.




    Southern Morocco, when removing outliers is actually quite similar to the rest. Also, you can't just lump all the African in one group, especially since African components are as much divergent from each other (if not more) as Eurasian components.



    108K ago Aterian girl "Bouchra":


    Jebel Irhoud (160ka) too is very archaic and quite distant from any modern human (thought to be Neanderthal, it's actually a very early modern human (very similar to contemporary Skhul and Qafzeh specimens in Israel):




    Anatomically modern "black" tropical Africans arrived later, but they very likely preceded Iberomaurusians in the late Aterian period (until 30.000 years ago).
    Actually Its not that far back
    Uan Muhuggiag
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uan_Muhuggiag

    The most noteworthy find at Uan Muhuggiag is the well-preserved mummy of a young boy of approximately 2 1/2 years old. The child was in a fetal position, then embalmed, then placed in a sack made of antelope skin, which was insulated by a layer of leaves.[3] The boy's organs were removed, as evidenced by incisions in his stomach and thorax, and an organic preservative was inserted to stop his body from decomposing.[7] An ostrich eggshell necklace was also found around his neck.[2] Radiocarbon dating determined the age of the mummy to be approximately 5600 years old, which makes it about 1000 years older than the earliest previously recorded mummy in ancient Egypt.[1] The shape of the boy's skull indicated that he was of sub-Saharan African origin.[7] One other individual, an adult, was found at Uan Muhuggiag, buried in a crouched position.[2] However, the body showed no evidence of evisceration or any other method of preservation. The body was estimated to date from about 7500 BP.[8]
    This time frame co incides with the green sahara https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic_Subpluvial
    Like I said though they were other medd eurasian in north africa but SSA were already in north africa
    Last edited by Zebruh; 2016-07-24 at 10:11.

  10. #26
    Established Member
    Molecular Biologist
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2014-01-02
    Posts
    996
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tauromenion View Post
    Untrue.

    Berbers have THREE main genetic affinities... Western Mediterranean, SW Asian, and Sub-Saharan African. What they lack is the Caucasus component, found in today's Middle Easterners, Balkanites, Italians and so on.

    1) A Sub-Saharan African component, stronger as you go west and south (i.e. southern Morocco has the most) but that is present in *all* North Africans. It may have been augmented by the slave trade, but there is no Berber nor Egyptian who doesn't have it.

    2) A Western Mediterranean component, shared with Sardinians, Spanish, Portuguese, and so on. This is really an ancient Neolithic Mediterranean component that is linked to, but removed from by several thousands of years, SW Asia.

    3) A gene flow from the east, reflecting more direct West and SW Asian affinities, but lacking a Caucasus component. This component could indeed be considered "Natufian".
    There is no evidence of Natufians entering Africa do you know where Natufian culture was found,in the Levant to the tip of the Sinai .Plus there is evidence that Natufians and Neolithic aDNA discovered in the Middle East had virtually no Sub Saharan ancestry at all according to Lazaridis.


  11. #27
    Established Member
    CIVIS ROMANVS SVM
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2010-11-06
    Posts
    2,694
    Gender
    Phenotype
    med - MENA
    Religion
    Physics

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SomaliSuldaan View Post
    When did E-M81 proto berbers arrive? And did they(E-M81 males) come directly from the Horn or Egypt?
    Associating E-M81 with "proto-berber" is inaccurate considering E-M81 is much older. In any case, since E-M35 very likely originated in North Africa (around Egypt) based on the higher diversity and more basal lineages found there (vs East Africa), E-M81 is very likely to have originated in North Africa, from around Egypt or even anywhere to the west of it. The Horn of Africa is very unlikely since E-M35 likely originated in North Africa and since very basal E-M81 are found in West Africa (and some Afro-descendants in the Americas).

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebruh View Post
    Actually Its not that far back
    I'm talking about NW Africa stricto sensu. Uan Muhuggiag is at the limits of the modern traditional Berber territory, bordering Nilo-Saharans. Uan Muhuggiag might actually be related to the latter, which isn't surprising since the Green Sahara was in part inhabited by various tropical Africans (southern Algeria, southern Libya etc) and it's been already known for decades.

    Let alone the fact that the Green Sahara turning back to a desert 6000 years ago might have contributed to some African ancestry in North Africa (Green Sahara refugees?).

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik View Post
    There is no evidence of Natufians entering Africa do you know where Natufian culture was found,in the Levant to the tip of the Sinai .Plus there is evidence that Natufians and Neolithic aDNA discovered in the Middle East had virtually no Sub Saharan ancestry at all according to Lazaridis.

    Errr...Do you realize that Natufian lacking African ancestry (if this hold true) doesn't go against Natufian influence in Africa?

  12. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Tsukonin For This Useful Post:

    nee4speed111 (2016-07-25), Shaquille (2016-07-24), SomaliSuldaan (2016-07-25), TheMask (2016-07-24)

  13. #28
    Regular Member
    Hopelessly nerdy Leo Iscariot's Avatar
    Last Online
    2017-03-10 @ 22:35
    Join Date
    2016-04-27
    Posts
    167
    Location
    The U.S.
    Gender
    Race
    Caucasoid
    Phenotype
    Mediterranid
    Metaethnos
    Romance
    Ethnicity
    Cuban
    Phenotype
    Atlanto-Med + Berid
    Politics
    Disaffected malcontent
    Confederate States of America Cuba Suebi Kingdom Amazigh Italy SPQR Union for the Mediterranean

    Default








    (It's scary how much she looks like my oldest niece.)







    Last edited by Leo Iscariot; 2016-07-24 at 22:10.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Leo Iscariot For This Useful Post:

    TheMask (2016-07-24)

  15. #29
    Established Member
    Molecular Biologist tauromenion's Avatar
    Last Online
    2019-09-15 @ 15:25
    Join Date
    2012-08-09
    Posts
    7,371
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    R1a1a
    mtDNA
    H
    Race
    Caucasoid
    Phenotype
    Mediterranid
    Politics
    Moderate.
    Italy Sicily-II Greece Portugal Israel Star of David Poland Cape Verde

    Default

    This look is common in Iberia.


  16. #30
    Established Member
    Molecular Biologist Zebruh's Avatar
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2016-01-05
    Posts
    781
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    z (ancient Alantean)
    mtDNA
    bra
    Race
    Quadracial
    Metaethnos
    Equidae
    Ethnicity
    Zebra
    Politics
    Don't trust Hillary
    Religion
    Agnostic
    Holy Roman Empire United States African Union(OAS) European Union Federal Republic of Central America Kurdistan

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukonin View Post


    I'm talking about NW Africa stricto sensu. Uan Muhuggiag is at the limits of the modern traditional Berber territory, bordering Nilo-Saharans. Uan Muhuggiag might actually be related to the latter, which isn't surprising since the Green Sahara was in part inhabited by various tropical Africans (southern Algeria, southern Libya etc) and it's been already known for decades.
    Let alone the fact that the Green Sahara turning back to a desert 6000 years ago might have contributed to some African ancestry in North Africa (Green Sahara refugees?).
    Uan Muhuggiag is not at its limits at only traditional berber land. Its pottery culture was also found in egypt. You didn't watch the video.
    Last edited by Zebruh; 2016-07-25 at 00:41.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Could I Possibly have berber dna?
    By Vertes in forum Personal Taxonomy
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 2014-07-04, 11:48
  2. Can he pass for Berber?
    By kilometro7 in forum Classification Requests
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 2011-09-03, 22:50
  3. Berber peoples
    By Qart Hadash in forum Africa
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 2010-05-04, 22:27

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
<