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Thread: Etymology of *orja, Aryans, Iran, *h₄eryós etc. [split] //mod431 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioterus View Post
    We call them Niemcy as well. Kurhan Sławy? I specially like the kids playing there.
    It's a good scene with children playing near the Mound. The Kurhan Slavy is a popular tourist destination in Minsk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemminkäinen View Post
    As Roman historians wrote Slavs were during the German-Hunnic war an underdeveloped group living somewhere in eastern swampy areas.
    East Baltic region, Belarus, north-western Russia and Finland are swampy. Finland is known as the country of thousand lakes. The rest of Slavic land doesn't have many swamps. In fact, Ukraine - the likely birthplace of Slavs - has a lot of fertile soil. It' could be one of the reason for a great number of Slavs in the Iron age who popuplated entire eastern Europe at some stage.


    Monk Nestor of Kiev wrote a chronicle about Slavs in 1113. He was Christian writing negative things about neighbouring Slavs who were pagan and positive things about Drevlyans and Polians that were first baptised living around Kiev. I suspect Roman historians stating we were undeveloped because we were pagan. Back in the days Christianity was an important part of any European community.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemminkäinen View Post
    in Germanic languages from Slav to slave
    in Finnic languages from Aryan to orja
    But the Sława (Fame) or Słowo (Word) in the Słowianie/ Slaveni ethnonym has little to do with "Slav - Slave" it is purely coincidental sound of words.

    It is like trying to prove the Germanics, sorry! Germic people were the source of diseases in the ancient world.
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    Slav and Slave is coincidental as Piotrus pointed. Our self identification is Sloveni (in plural) . Most common etymology of Sloveni is from 'Slovo' - 'word'. We named Germans - niemcy . Numb people. The common explanation of 'niemcy' are people speaking a language which Slavs could not understand.

    Lithuanians called Belarusians Gudai. The etymology of the term is language of people which Lithuanians could not understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioterus View Post
    But the Sława (Fame) or Słowo (Word) in the Słowianie/ Slaveni ethnonym has little to do with "Slav - Slave" it is purely coincidental sound of words.

    It is like trying to prove the Germanics, sorry! Germic people were the source of diseases in the ancient world.
    I really meant that I have no clue about linguistics, but I can make cool conclusions, at least at the level a novice tries to explain population genetics
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    1. Baltic Finnic languages (including Finnish) never came from the Volga basin along with ancestors of present-day Finns.
    2. Finnish I1 (around 30% of all Finns) has Germanic roots from the late Bronze Age or the early Iron Age.
    3. As to the Finnish prehistory we have no evidences about any Iron Age (or later) east-to-west migration, but many unquestionable evidences about west-to-east migrations.

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    @Jaska @Semitic Duwa

    I've heard that that h₄- terms are usually not accepted at all, and that Proto-Indo-European is traditionally explained through h₁ h₂ h₃ & H (unknown), whereas h₄ is used extremely rarely and in fringe reconstructions. Does this mean that *h₄eryós is less likely to be the root of the Proto-Indo-Iranian *áryas etc?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander View Post
    @Jaska @Semitic Duwa

    I've heard that that h₄- terms are usually not accepted at all, and that Proto-Indo-European is traditionally explained through h₁ h₂ h₃ & H (unknown), whereas h₄ is used extremely rarely and in fringe reconstructions. Does this mean that *h₄eryós is less likely to be the root of the Proto-Indo-Iranian *áryas etc?
    This depends on the linguists' and their theories on PIE's sound laws, and some (purely non-academics in my experience; all the scholarly PIE books I've read, it's *h₄eryós) would say it should be *h₂eryós instead of *h₄eryós, either way it's just a minor sound in the overall reconstruction, and *áryas is derived from the reconstructed term regardless of if it was h₄ or h₂.

    I'm generally not sure about these h₁ h₂ h₃ h₄ laryngeal phonemes though. I haven't seen many Indo-European cognates where the PIE term is reconstructed as h₁ h₂ h₃ h₄ something, and the H is still around in the daughter languages. Take the PIE root word *h₂ékʷeh₂, which only has two cognates (Germanic and Latin), so it might not be an actual PIE word, but in any case, *h₂ékʷeh₂ is the suggested PIE root for Germanic *ahwō (pronounced just "ö" in modern Swedish, as in island, lol), Italic *akʷā and ultimately Latin aqua. None of its descendant terms contain the h₂. So either all these H sounds were lost very early on in PIE before any Indo-European migrations took place, or it's just some hypothetical misunderstanding.

    But I'm not a linguist so I could be wrong here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander View Post
    @Jaska @Semitic Duwa

    I've heard that that h₄- terms are usually not accepted at all, and that Proto-Indo-European is traditionally explained through h₁ h₂ h₃ & H (unknown), whereas h₄ is used extremely rarely and in fringe reconstructions. Does this mean that *h₄eryós is less likely to be the root of the Proto-Indo-Iranian *áryas etc?
    There is no agreement on the actual number of laryngeals in PIE, most settle on 3, namely *h₁ *h₂ and *h₃. The actual nature and quality of these laryngeals is even more controversial. So while the mainstream view accepts only three laryngeals, there might actually have been more, or less. That being said, the *h₄ in *h₄eryós could easily be replaced with *h₂ if we're willing to take a more mainstream view of PIE phonology, either way this word is going to begin with a laryngeal.


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