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Thread: Are there Ashkenazim Jews who cluster with Levantines on PCA plots?910 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpgisfan View Post
    What percentage of Levantine blood do Cypriots have?
    Probably over 75% given their genetic placement today.

    I think Durcherrs is mixing up ancient Jews with the Philistines, who were believed to have been from Crete..

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    Why wouldn't Ashkenazim score full Levantine?

    Could it be:

    1. Ancient Levantines were more like Ashkenazim, or
    2. Absorbing descendants of Philistines and other "sea peoples", and
    3. Hellenistic and Roman conversions in the Mediterranean after the fall of Carthage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rshdn View Post
    Why wouldn't Ashkenazim score full Levantine?
    Because they are not fully Levantine in origin, despite the fact that an overwhelming majority of their ancestry is Levantine.

    Could it be:

    1. Ancient Levantines were more like Ashkenazim, or
    2. Absorbing descendants of Philistines and other "sea peoples", and
    3. Hellenistic and Roman conversions in the Mediterranean after the fall of Carthage.
    1. Unlikely (this actually contradicts the data we have).
    2. Possible but I doubt this is the admixture event we're looking for. We'll soon know either way.
    3. Far more likely, even though we'll need ancient data to tell for sure.


    Quote Originally Posted by MnM View Post
    Morocco is a western lapdog.
    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    Those Bronze Age samples are just red herrings to distract you from the actual arrivals of populations with Semitic ancestry. Don’t take the bait by focusing on the wrong samples, lol. He is passing off Bronze Age Levantines with no evidence of strong predynastic input, as “Semites“. This way, he can flip it around and say Proto-Semitic speakers and predynastics were more or less identical to the Bronze Age Levantines sampled so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    @Semitic Duwa

    Wonder what the resident Proto-Semite has to say about this. I thought unmixed Egyptians were supposed to be Abusir with less/zero Chl?

    In your view, does this prove you wrong, or is it just a coincidence () that M1 is absent in one of the three subsamples from Abusir, and rare overall?

    And don’t change your signature now, please. I’m looking forward to you looking more and more incompetent as more aDNA is published. Wish there was a way to speed this up. But the extra wait and seeing you with your pants down every day, kinda has its own appeal, too.

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    As far as Minoans go, they were most likely related to the Sicanians of Sicily (the pre-Indo European population of the island who, contrary to ancient writers were most certainly not Iberian).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    You're talking out of your arse.

    Look, I score 1% on tests like K8, ie, tests that don't have a Jewish or, indeed, any ethnic component, but rather test for deep-seated racial ancestry. You put your data and my data into the same test, it's still about a 1% difference. Believing in phantom SSA (again, from where in history would it have come from?) is the mark of the Christian Identity retard. And, again, the Bible mentions it happening amongst the proto-Israelites. I note you haven't dealt with that.
    What you don't understand is that the "Jewish" component is already a mish mash of several different races that has been identified as "Jewish" by other mongrelized Jews. The other stuff is just more "recent" ancestry that can be identified (that's why no Jews ever score 100% "Jewish" on DNA-tests). Also, in haplotypes most Jews share the J and E group with their Arab kinsmen (who are also mixed).

    As for 'Jewish DNA,' what they mean by it is, as with MTDNA U5 with Europeans, there are clades and SNPs that exist amongst Jewish populations at elevated frequencies, but are not absent outside of Jewish populations. It's like saying 'R1b is Indo-European' when not all R1b is Indo-European but the average carrier of R1b is Indo-European. There are no markers, in any ethnic group, that are truly unique AND have absolute diffusion within people of that group's heritage.
    R1b and U5 are mostly found in White countries or ancient White countries where Whites either mixed with non-Whites or dispersed from. Jews mostly share Y-DNA with Arabs or other mixed-race people (or have White Y-DNA or mtDNA due to admixture).

    Ashkenazis are ~97% West Eurasian. Puertorriquenos are ~75% West Eurasian. Mestizos are by definition ~50%. Why are you so scientifically illiterate?
    They are slightly less mixed than you. Other than that, you are both comparable groups in both genetics and phentotypes.

    1) Jews were never expelled from the Byzantine empire.
    "Ostracized" is a better term.

    2) How stupid do you have to be to claim that Jews who went to the Ottoman Empire in 1492 opened the gates of Spain in 711-712? The Ottoman Empire wouldn't even exist until the 13th century for fuck's sake this is a waste of my time. You are so monumentally stupid, and ignorant of everything from genetics to even the most basic facts of history.
    Sorry, I wrote to fast. But the jews who went to Arabia (a very large portion) did mix with the Arabs (before the ottoman Empire). Later the Jews also helped the Ottomans and mixed with them.
    Sephardim did not mix with Arabs, and you have yet to provide proof they were (your source merely refers to Jews in the initial invasion of Spain siding with Arabs), either genetic or historic.
    Of course they did... That's why you share both admixture and haplotypes.

    That's not how debates work. 'Oh, I cited evidence some other day. Believe me.' God damn you people are stupid.
    Well, I'm not going to waste my time giving valuable sources to a Canaanite-Edomite mongrel dog that wants to subvert the whole discussion.

    Yes, I know, you're a Christian Identity retard and anti-Semite. What you don't get is there's no evidence for your claim and metric shit-tonnes of evidence against it
    You don't have to be a Christian Identity follower to draw conclusions from both history and DNA.

    Turks are Turks, not Arabs.

    Turks never got to Sicily, yet Sicilians score higher 'MENA' than the Greeks (and Sardinians and South Italians do, too). DNA analysis of ancient Greek remains proved they were similar to modern Greeks. Ancient Arabs? Pre-Greek Arabs? Someone help me out here.
    Both Turks and other MENA-peoples carry "Arab" DNA. The "Moors" and other Arabs invaded Italy and Spain.
    Last edited by Durcherrs; 2016-12-31 at 20:21.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Durcherrs View Post
    What you don't understand is that the "Jewish" component is already a mish mash of several different races that has been identified as "Jewish" by other mongrelized Jews. The other stuff is just more "recent" ancestry that can be identified (that's why no Jews ever score 100% "Jewish" on DNA-tests). Also, in haplotypes most Jews share the J and E group with their Arab kinsmen (who are also mixed).
    What you don't understand is that, as I specifically wrote, I'm not talking about tests that include a 'Jewish component.' Anyhow, I know people who score 100% Jewish on their tests, so even when you go wildly off-topic, you're talking out your arse.

    R1b and U5 are mostly found in White countries or ancient White countries where Whites either mixed with non-Whites or dispersed from. Jews mostly share Y-DNA with Arabs or other mixed-race people (or have White Y-DNA or mtDNA due to admixture).
    Some tribes in Northern Cameroon are 98% R1b, please explain that. I'd love to hear about ancient West African whites.

    Anyhow, R1b is not comparable with E. R1b is a subclade of a subclade of a subclade with a TMRCA tens of thousands of years more recent than E. You can't even compare R1b to E3b, ffs, the difference is enormous, God you're illiterate. R in general is widely diffused amongst non-whites (as is R1b), even native Australians and Amerindians. E, conversely, is widely diffused amongst whites - even LBJ, the Wright brothers, and Richard Attenborough are E.

    E+J is 10-15% of Germany (mostly E), almost 5% of the UK, a few percent throughout Europe, and has been found in ancient sites from Iberia to the Balkans dating back 8,000 years (note: 7,000 years before the """arab""" invasions) - is this evidence that even pure Aryan Israelites are - gasp! - 'arabs?' Or would you perhaps like, yet again, to overhaul your argument?

    They are slightly less mixed than you. Other than that, you are both comparable groups in both genetics and phentotypes.
    So either you've never seen a Mestizo or you've never seen a Jew, got it. And, as we already knew, you've never read a paper.

    "Ostracized" is a better term.
    Translation: oh whoops, I have no idea what I'm talking about and I got caught out on one of my lies.

    There have been Jewish communities in Greece without interruption for over 2,000 years (see: Romaniotes). There are even such communities in Izmir (formerly Smyrna), one of the last relicts of Byzantine Jewry in Anatolia. They were never expelled or 'ostracised,' whatever that means in this case.

    Sorry, I wrote to fast. But the jews who went to Arabia (a very large portion) did mix with the Arabs (before the ottoman Empire). Later the Jews also helped the Ottomans and mixed with them.
    No, they did not mix with the Ottomans any more than American whites mixed with Native Americans - that is to say, the Jewish community in the majority of cases doesn't retain people who marry out, hence the term. There is no genetic or historical evidence for the reverse and your illiteracy is showing hard.

    I'm also assuming you think 'the entire Middle East' is 'Arabia.' I also assume you had no idea what 'Arab' meant so now you're pretending you deliberately redefined it to mean 'brown people' rather than yet another showing off of your historical illiteracy (wrote too fast, my fucking arse, you even edited your post. You're fooling no one, this time, not even yourself).

    Of course they did... That's why you share both admixture and haplotypes.
    I guess that means Europeans mixed with Indians. Same level of 'proof' (ie, a degree of haplogroup overlap depending on subgroup). Of course, the reality is whilst Jews, surprise surprise, have high sharing with Levantines, the amount their YDNA mirrors, say, Saudi or Egyptian YDNA is quite a lot less ... I wonder how you explain that?

    Well, I'm not going to waste my time giving valuable sources to a Canaanite-Edomite mongrel dog that wants to subvert the whole discussion.
    Oh no! Does that mean I won't hear the white trash elucidate his arguments involving time-travelling Sephardics?

    Look, you're just a depigmented Afrocentrist. Going by IQ, wealth, and achievements, you're literally only one step up the ladder from them, too.

    Anyhow it's obvious you have no sources. Lying [for Jesus] is quite typical of your people.

    You don't have to be a Christian Identity follower to draw conclusions from both history and DNA.
    But it's surprising how no one who isn't a Christian Identity follower draws your conclusions.

    BTW, humour me this. Let's say you're right about Jews. What makes you the descendants of the Israelites, considering the mountains of peer-reviewed studies proving European genetic continuity within Europe going back thousands of years, and the fact your haplogroups are alien to the Levant even by your own logic?*

    *What do I mean by this? Well, you just called me an Edomite. But Edomites are the male-line descendants of Esau, brother of Jacob. That would suggest similar YDNA data. Unless you think the handful of Jews with European lineages - which you already admitted were the results of introgression via admixture - are the true Edomites, and everyone else is an 'Arab,' a word you incorrectly identified as 'just a word that means mixed' despite actually evidence of YDNA lines in the Levant having 10,000 years of history there?

    Both Turks and other MENA-peoples carry "Arab" DNA. The "Moors" and other Arabs invaded Italy and Spain.
    They invaded Spain, yes...but not Asturias, and Asturian DNA isn't far removed from their neighbours' ... neither is southern France's, come to think of it... I wonder if the expulsion of the Moors had anything to do with this great mystery.

    As for Italy, they didn't get far beyond Sicily, from which, again, they were expelled.
    Last edited by Longbowman; 2017-01-01 at 02:08.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tauromenion View Post
    The only Greeks close to Ashkenazim are islanders and Cretans. The rest have too much NE European ("Balto-Slavic") type of admixture, even more than what Russian Jews have who had lived alongside Slavs for millennia.
    How much do Russian Jews have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpgisfan View Post
    What percentage of Levantine blood do Cypriots have?
    about 70%

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