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Thread: Afanasevo Culture and the Torochians329 days old

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander View Post
    Silesian, this is a recurring pattern of yours that I've noticed every time you reply to me. You make an obscure statement, such as this one, and you formulate it so that it doesn't look like an argument. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you were a spambot of some kind. What is it that you're trying to tell me with this post? I desperately want to see the point you're trying to make. Because I don't understand anything at all. And why are you talking about haplogroups again? Please, help me understand how your mind works.
    The exact opposite; everything I have posted are transparent facts with sources. Why not address the points in the post you disagree with?
    1]Yamnaya culture=R1b
    2]Afanesievo culture=R1b
    3]Poltavka culture=R1b
    4]Sintashta=R1a
    5]Andronovo=R1a

    Yamnaya+Afanasievo comprised of R1b are roughly 1000+/- years older than Sintashta/Androvo comprised of R1a. How do you explain this?
    Last edited by Silesian; 2017-08-12 at 18:01.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    The exact opposite; everything I have posted are transparent facts with sources. Why not address the points in the post you disagree with?
    1]Yamnaya culture=R1b
    2]Afanesievo culture=R1b
    3]Poltavka culture=R1b
    4]Sintashta=R1a
    5]Andronovo=R1a
    That's the whole problem, Silesian. What point are you trying to make?
    “At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races."

    - Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man

    https://youtu.be/BBz_z-hZk80?t=2m7s

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    Power77 (2017-08-12)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander View Post
    That's the whole problem, Silesian. What point are you trying to make?
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander View Post
    Turns out the Tarim mummies were Proto-Indo-Iranian, not Tocharian. I can't believe I missed Allentoft et al (2015) saying that the remains were closer to Andronovo than Afanasevo. Although I already had a hunch about it, since the Tarim mummies were light-pigmented - which seems to be a product of Corded Ware-era sexual selection. So it seems that the Tocharians were wiped out for good by that time. This raises questions regarding the Tocharian language. Did the people who killed the original Tocharian speakers end up adopting their language?

    By the way, I had an interesting conversation with professors Mair and Golden. Apparently, all the early Turkic rulers - including the Gökturks - had Indo-Iranian names, starting with Bumin Qaghan (Iran. būmī̆ , Soġd. βwmh, βwm [vūm]). It turns out that the Ashina ruling clan was R1a-Z93 as well. The name Ashina is Indo-Iranian in origin as well, 阿 史 那 (EMC *ʔa şi’ na’, LMC ʔaʂŗ na´ according to Pulleyblank) < Khotano-Saka âşşeina-âššena “blue”. Professor Golden also mentions that not only are the names of the Turkic rulers foreign, but so is the titulature (khagan etc. originates from the Rouran khaganate).

    When it comes to the gök/kök (blue) in the Gökturks, it seems that the “blue” of the Ashina may have been a reflection of their geographical colour coding (which follows the Chinese), where blue represents East, but the Ashina are in the East only after they come to the Altay and bore the name Ashina before then. So the colour might have been significant in some respect to the Ashina clan or to the contemporary nomadic Indo-Iranians in general. This issue remains unresolved. And as a last note, the notion of “qut” (Heaven-granted good fortune legitimating the right to rule) has long been recognized as a connection to Iranian (Avestan) Xwārǝna, Old Pers. farnah etc. The etymology of Tengri remains obscure. Notions of a supreme celestial deity may well have come to the Turks from some Iranian source. It may also have been self-generated.

    The professors mention an interesting Turkic saying:

    “Bashsïz börk bolmas, Tatsïz Türk bolmas” (just as a hat cannot exist without a head, the Turk cannot exist without a Tat). Tat is a general term for “other, foreigner” used in particular for Iranians.

    In other words, it seems like the Turks were complete copycats in every sense of the word . But this also means that they possibly hold invaluable information about the Proto-Indo-Iranians and consequently the PIE from whom they copied.
    How about you explain what Turkic rulers have to do with Afanasievo and Tocharians?
    _2410-1788_Volume_3_2_1_2_March_2016_P.154-157"]Ashina ruling clan was R1a-Z93[/URL] as well.

    Im patient please explain how this benefits the knowledge base of Afansievo or Tocharian culture?
    I would think this post should be in a Turkic section.
    Last edited by Silesian; 2017-08-12 at 18:12.

  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander View Post
    When it comes to the gök/kök (blue) in the Gökturks, it seems that the “blue” of the Ashina may have been a reflection of their geographical colour coding (which follows the Chinese), where blue represents East, but the Ashina are in the East only after they come to the Altay and bore the name Ashina before then.
    The colour blue was expensive in the East. Many mosques are blue.
    You can compare it with cardinal-red in the West.

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