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    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Text
    I have no experience of U-Boot, and it's an open source bootloader anyway, and not present on most Android devices. But yeah, it's the OEMs that are locking down the devices. Even so, Sony offers instructions on how to unlock the bootloader (see their Open Devices program; it's one of the many reasons I only buy high-end Xperia smartphones), and doing that is quite a simple procedure. However, once that is done, you have to do a hell of a job with partition tools, flashing procedures and so on, and the custom-ROM you're about to install, has to be specifically built for the Xperia Z, and so on (meaning, every Android device model needs a developer/maintainer for that specific custom-ROM, instead of you know, a bunch of developers coding a generic AOSP distro that works on all ARM devices). In other words, you can't just download a generic ISO of LineageOS and install it on any Android device whose bootloader you've unlocked; they're all ARM-based devices, but still, every model requires its own specific version of LineageOS, and so on.

    Anyway point is, ARM has a retarded business model. ARM only licenses its CPU design to companies like Qualcomm, Apple, Samsung, MediaTek and so on, and they develop their own ARM-based CPUs. So ARM processors is a very fragmented ecosystem (and not always compliant/interoperable with other ARM processors, not fully anyway), and the end result has seriously damaged user friendliness. Intel exerts a level of control on x86, and while that has resulted in a very controlled environment where basically only Intel and AMD are allowed to sell x86 processors (and occasionally, VIA in some Asian markets), at least with x86, there's no stupid bullshit, and if I want to install Windows, GNU/Linux, *BSD and whatever else, all I have to do is to download an ISO file compiled for x86-64, and it'll run on all x64 computers, and no hassle. Of course some Linux distros and *BSDs are retarded in their installation procedures (basically no graphical installation), and so installing some of these distros just doesn't work (and before you call me a n00b, even Linus Torvalds said he couldn't figure out how to install most Linux distros due to this issue), point is, x86 is much better done as far as UEFI and other standards are concerned. The way Android is now, too many restrictions and other retarded stuff.
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    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries
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  3. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    I have no experience of U-Boot, and it's an open source bootloader anyway, and not present on most Android devices. But yeah, it's the OEMs that are locking down the devices. Even so, Sony offers instructions on how to unlock the bootloader (see their Open Devices program; it's one of the many reasons I only buy high-end Xperia smartphones), and doing that is quite a simple procedure. However, once that is done, you have to do a hell of a job with partition tools, flashing procedures and so on, and the custom-ROM you're about to install, has to be specifically built for the Xperia Z, and so on (meaning, every Android device model needs a developer/maintainer for that specific custom-ROM, instead of you know, a bunch of developers coding a generic AOSP distro that works on all ARM devices). In other words, you can't just download a generic ISO of LineageOS and install it on any Android device whose bootloader you've unlocked; they're all ARM-based devices, but still, every model requires its own specific version of LineageOS, and so on.
    My nigga, you omitted my text and that often indicates bias. I know all about Lineage OS I was going to install it on an Android tablet then I realized it was pointless and phablet made more sense. Android tablets are dead and apple killed them but you can still get the tablets but I wouldn't. Anyway, Android is not the Arm company the problem with the Android ecosystem is google locking shit down and secondly the phone and tablet manufacturers locking shit down. Google is giant monopoly in the USA like Amazon and can exert more pressure on manufacturers than Arm. Arm exists in Britain not silicon Valley USA.

    Monopoly companies like Google can exert more control.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    Anyway point is, ARM has a retarded business model. ARM only licenses its CPU design to companies like Qualcomm, Apple, Samsung, MediaTek and so on, and they develop their own ARM-based CPUs. So ARM processors is a very fragmented ecosystem (and not always compliant/interoperable with other ARM processors, not fully anyway), and the end result has seriously damaged user friendliness. Intel exerts a level of control on x86, and while that has resulted in a very controlled environment where basically only Intel and AMD are allowed to sell x86 processors (and occasionally, VIA in some Asian markets), at least with x86, there's no stupid bullshit, and if I want to install Windows, GNU/Linux, *BSD and whatever else, all I have to do is to download an ISO file compiled for x86-64, and it'll run on all x64 computers, and no hassle. Of course some Linux distros and *BSDs
    are retarded in their installation procedures (basically no graphical installation), and so installing some of these distros just doesn't work (and before you call me a n00b, even Linus Torvalds said he couldn't figure out how to install most Linux distros due to this issue), point is, x86 is mhttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/UrnfieldCulture.jpguch better done as far as UEFI and other standards are concerned. The way Android is now, too many restrictions and other retarded stuff.
    Linux is more fragmented than Arm and I don't see you bitching about that. There are like a million Linux distros. When you are talking about x86 you are not talking about embedded systems but dinosaur platforms like the PC desktop.

    Also, Arm can't exert the same kind of muscle as some other tech companies it is not based on Silicon Valley but smaller jolly old England.

    Also, the devices like the Firefly Rockchip RK3399 Firefly have both Ubuntu and Android installed on it so if you can't figure out how to install anything else on it then you are close enough to a n00b that you shouldn't even be fucking with that default setting.

    Also, Linus just likes to muck around in the kernel he was never an advanced power Linux user. Linus isn't even the best kernel hacker as some better ones work for Redhat he is just some cranky old man who is still kind of in charge just because he started the project. Linus could not install Debian but it is the number 6th most popular Linux distro. It kind of has a graphical installer but not really as it is just a flashy wrapper around the same ncurses installer they have as an option.

    Anyway, the distros for advanced users don't have GUI installers like OpenBSD, Arch Linux, Crux Linux, Slackware, Gentoo, Debian (it kind of does but is a lame one you might as well just use their ncurses script) and so forth.

    Graphical installers are superfluous if you know what you are doing and non-graphical installers add a more powerful way of installing. For instance, a system administrator can script a non-gui installer into an installer to install the OS to a bunch a computers at once over the network and it can even define exactly what packages are on it etc... GUI's are programmed by programmers that have a baked set of features in them so they are not flexible because you can only do what they imagined you would want to do. With the command-line you can do things the programmers never thought you might want to do so it is more powerful.

    I will give you an example. When you encrypt your laptop , with slackware and OpenBSD, you need to do it from the commandline and you have more options like what kind of encryption you want to use etc... with GUI installers , even the Debian one, they just pick an encryption type for you giving you less control.

    That is why advanced users, like myself, don't really give a shit about you bitching about not having a GUI because not having one just restricts advanced users. For instance, Arch Linux does not have a graphical installer but you can control every inch of that system and what you want on it starting from install to post-installation. Popular distros like Ubuntu are the opposite.

    I missed easy Linux by a wide margin. I started using Linux in 1997 when Linux was exclusively for Geeks and I had to compile a kernel just to get things like sound working and it had WindowMaker by default not KDE or Gnome. That was the Debian Slink release.

    So you are barking up the wrong tree here. It's funny that newbies like you think GUI is more advanced when that is not always the case and definitely not the installer. Also, some GUIs are just glorified wrappers over ncurses which you would not consider GUI and ncurses is more scriptable.
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  4. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    My nigga, you omitted my text and that often indicates bias.
    Assumptions dawg, assumptions. I was posting from my smartphone and didn't feel like fragmenting your text and answering each point separately (it's a pain in the ass on a smartphone), so I just answered in one post, and omitted your text just to save space on the database. Bias had nothing to do with it; if anything I actually agree with your post, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    I know all about Lineage OS I was going to install it on an Android tablet then I realized it was pointless and phablet made more sense. Android tablets are dead and apple killed them but you can still get the tablets but I wouldn't.
    Yeah I have an old Samsung Galaxy tablet, I bought it for reading ebooks, but it didn't have an OLED screen, so kind of pointless. Sony Xperia Tablets were pretty damn cool though.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Anyway, Android is not the Arm company the problem with the Android ecosystem is google locking shit down and secondly the phone and tablet manufacturers locking shit down.
    Well yes, I call it iPhonization. Android wasn't always like this. Early on, Android devices were pretty open. You could replace your batteries on your Android device in case it got worn out, you had microSD slots (still do, on most high-end Xperia devices anyway, but Asus released a ROG phone without a microSD slot, and that's so not cool), Google teamed up with various OEMs and together they released the Nexus brand of Android devices, and these Nexus devices were very user friendly (unlockable bootloaders and shit like that; the Nexus brand was designed to run Android AOSP vanilla builds, and if you felt like it, install CyanogenMod, Paranoid Android, PAC-MAN ROM and so on). Then Samsung, aka Sapple/Errorsung/Samsuck, began imitating Apple a lot, more than usual, I mean more than simple design cues. Sapple introduced the custom-ROMs hostile, "Knox", and now it's just a pain in the ass to install LineageOS on their devices. Soon after, Google abandoned the Nexus brand and began selling their Pixel devices, and the Pixel brand is not vanilla Android. And now Android development is more about introducing iRestrictions and copying iOS, than anything else.

    The irony here is that while Android OEMs are moving more and more in the path of iPhonization, Apple is nowadays increasing freedoms with their iDevices; I hear Apple allows you to easily replace the battery nowadays. Sony hasn't had user replaceable batteries in their Xperias, since like, 2011 or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Google is giant monopoly in the USA like Amazon and can exert more pressure on manufacturers than Arm. Arm exists in Britain not silicon Valley USA.

    Monopoly companies like Google can exert more control.
    Actually, Google isn't really the problem here. The problem is this cartel:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Handset_Alliance

    Sure, Google is a member the OHA, but it's the OHA calling the shots, and they're pushing the Android ecosystem into a more anti-consumer direction. That's why Android devices don't have UEFI and other motherboard standards that make it possible to develop proper operating systems for Android devices (this custom-ROMs crap is just retarded). Google of course has an interest in keeping Android devices in this sorry state (basically stagnation), and OEMs don't want to give you more freedom than they already have given you, but I wouldn't put the blame on Google, because at least Google gave consumers freedom, with their Nexus devices, they just didn't sell that well (no wonder, because the hardware wasn't the most high-end).

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Linux is more fragmented than Arm and I don't see you bitching about that.
    Dude, I've been bitching about it for years, lol. So much so, that I grew tired of complaining about Linux. Linux developers are a bunch of disorganized morons.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    There are like a million Linux distros.
    Yeah it's completely retarded.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    When you are talking about x86 you are not talking about embedded systems but dinosaur platforms like the PC desktop.
    Did I not call CISC, archaic? The problem with x86 is that it uses an instruction set from the 1970s; RISC is the future. But other than that, x86 is very much done right in most ways whereas ARM isn't (with the notable exception of being RISC, which of course is really the only advantage of ARM, and the only reason OEMs use ARM). But yeah CISC sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Also, Arm can't exert the same kind of muscle as some other tech companies it is not based on Silicon Valley but smaller jolly old England.
    What does location have to do with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Also, the devices like the Firefly Rockchip RK3399 Firefly have both Ubuntu and Android installed on it so if you can't figure out how to install anything else on it then you are close enough to a n00b that you shouldn't even be fucking with that default setting.
    Dude, who the fuck cares about Rockchip RK3399 Firefly? I'd like to install Ubuntu Touch, LineageOS, Replicant and whatever I feel like, on my smartphones, and I can't do that because ARM is a piece shit. Canonical discontinued Ubuntu Touch because ARM is a piece of shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Also, Linus just likes to muck around in the kernel he was never an advanced power Linux user. Linus isn't even the best kernel hacker as some better ones work for Redhat he is just some cranky old man who is still kind of in charge just because he started the project. Linus could not install Debian but it is the number 6th most popular Linux distro. It kind of has a graphical installer but not really as it is just a flashy wrapper around the same ncurses installer they have as an option.
    Funny thing is, I've installed Debian

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Anyway, the distros for advanced users don't have GUI installers like OpenBSD, Arch Linux, Crux Linux, Slackware, Gentoo, Debian (it kind of does but is a lame one you might as well just use their ncurses script) and so forth.

    Graphical installers are superfluous if you know what you are doing and non-graphical installers add a more powerful way of installing. For instance, a system administrator can script a non-gui installer into an installer to install the OS to a bunch a computers at once over the network and it can even define exactly what packages are on it etc... GUI's are programmed by programmers that have a baked set of features in them so they are not flexible because you can only do what they imagined you would want to do. With the command-line you can do things the programmers never thought you might want to do so it is more powerful.

    I will give you an example. When you encrypt your laptop , with slackware and OpenBSD, you need to do it from the commandline and you have more options like what kind of encryption you want to use etc... with GUI installers , even the Debian one, they just pick an encryption type for you giving you less control.

    That is why advanced users, like myself, don't really give a shit about you bitching about not having a GUI because not having one just restricts advanced users. For instance, Arch Linux does not have a graphical installer but you can control every inch of that system and what you want on it starting from install to post-installation. Popular distros like Ubuntu are the opposite.

    I missed easy Linux by a wide margin. I started using Linux in 1997 when Linux was exclusively for Geeks and I had to compile a kernel just to get things like sound working and it had WindowMaker by default not KDE or Gnome. That was the Debian Slink release.

    So you are barking up the wrong tree here. It's funny that newbies like you think GUI is more advanced when that is not always the case and definitely not the installer. Also, some GUIs are just glorified wrappers over ncurses which you would not consider GUI and ncurses is more scriptable.
    You want to do things with command-line, that's fine. I prefer GUI because I have other shit to do in front of the computer than read endless of documentation and installation instruction manuals all day about how to install an operating system. Yeah I know CLI is powerful in its own right, still, I prefer using GUI when available. If an operating system doesn't have a graphical installer, it's just not worth my time. I do use command-line from time to time btw, like Python, PuTTY, Ubuntu Terminal and so on. I do have some CLI experience. It's just not my cup of tea.

    This is all beside the point anyway. Point is, Android devices are intentionally retarded in that they're heavily restricted and locked down these days (in the name of "security" of course), and you can thank Apple and various OEMs for that, and of course also ARM for designing such a shitty ecosystem. I'm not letting ARM off the hook just because it's a British company.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2019-08-13 at 00:09.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
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    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries
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  5. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Assumptions dawg, assumptions. I was posting from my smartphone and didn't feel like fragmenting your text and answering each point separately (it's a pain in the ass on a smartphone), so I just answered in one post, and omitted your text just to save space on the database. Bias had nothing to do with it; if anything I actually agree with your post, lol.
    ok

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlurcard
    Yeah I have an old Samsung Galaxy tablet, I bought it for reading ebooks, but it didn't have an OLED screen, so kind of pointless. Sony Xperia Tablets were pretty damn cool though.

    Well yes, I call it iPhonization. Android wasn't always like this. Early on, Android devices were pretty open. You could replace your batteries on your Android device in case it got worn out, you had microSD slots (still do, on most high-end Xperia devices anyway, but Asus released a ROG phone without a microSD slot, and that's so not cool), Google teamed up with various OEMs and together they released the Nexus brand of Android devices, and these Nexus devices were very user friendly (unlockable bootloaders and shit like that; the Nexus brand was designed to run Android AOSP vanilla builds, and if you felt like it, install CyanogenMod, Paranoid Android, PAC-MAN ROM and so on). Then Samsung, aka Sapple/Errorsung/Samsuck, began imitating Apple a lot, more than usual, I mean more than simple design cues. Sapple introduced the custom-ROMs hostile, "Knox", and now it's just a pain in the ass to install LineageOS on their devices. Soon after, Google abandoned the Nexus brand and began selling their Pixel devices, and the Pixel brand is not vanilla Android. And now Android development is more about introducing iRestrictions and copying iOS, than anything else.

    The irony here is that while Android OEMs are moving more and more in the path of iPhonization, Apple is nowadays increasing freedoms with their iDevices; I hear Apple allows you to easily replace the battery nowadays. Sony hasn't had user replaceable batteries in their Xperias, since like, 2011 or something.
    Yeah, I know my Barnes and Noble Nook Plus 2 eReader is based on an old version of android so it was easy to root.


    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard

    Actually, Google isn't really the problem here. The problem is this cartel:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Handset_Alliance

    Sure, Google is a member the OHA, but it's the OHA calling the shots, and they're pushing the Android ecosystem into a more anti-consumer direction. That's why Android devices don't have UEFI and other motherboard standards that make it possible to develop proper operating systems for Android devices (this custom-ROMs crap is just retarded). Google of course has an interest in keeping Android devices in this sorry state (basically stagnation), and OEMs don't want to give you more freedom than they already have given you, but I wouldn't put the blame on Google, because at least Google gave consumers freedom, with their Nexus devices, they just didn't sell that well (no wonder, because the hardware wasn't the most high-end).
    Yeah, well google is getting evil they now filter politically incorrect material very extensively , the NSA has a backdoor in it and spies on you in other ways to make money through marketers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elias
    Dude, I've been bitching about it for years, lol. So much so, that I grew tired of complaining about Linux. Linux developers are a bunch of disorganized morons.
    Yeah, we have not talked about this for years or at least a year so I forgot. Anyway, the highpoint of Linux was 2007 the Linux journal website is going to shut down in 2 days:

    The golden age of FOSS was around 2007 when Linux was mainstream in corporate IT and developers worked with it directly.

    Linux and FOSS are more hidden than ever. So many of those FOSS projects on GitHub ultimately are used as building blocks for proprietary software. So many companies that seem to champion FOSS by helping upstream projects they rely on also choose to keep the projects they write themselves proprietary. Although Linux dominates the cloud, more and more developers and system administrators who use the cloud do so via proprietary APIs and proprietary services.

    The same is true on mobile devices, which are dominated by proprietary software even though Android is based on Linux.

    The FOSS community has also changed --FOSS advocates in many circumstances don't use Linux themselves, and they often make presentations on the benefits of FOSS from proprietary laptops running Windows or macOS. Many if not most web application developers write their web applications intended for Linux from Windows or macOS environments, and if they use Linux at all, it's within a virtual machine.

    If current trends continue, we could be back to a world of proprietary software, vendor lock-in and closed protocols like the world before 1994.

    On a related theme, open-source advocate Eric Raymond wrote on the Linux Journal site about the problem of critical internet services being dependent on unpaid volunteers "because they can't be monetized and thus don't have any revenue stream for the maintainers to live on".


    The big corporations will always step in to fix things, but to Raymond that is part of the problem. Wouldn't you like to have an internet that's less beholden to the mercy of large corporations and governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elias
    Yeah it's completely retarded.

    Did I not call CISC, archaic? The problem with x86 is that it uses an instruction set from the 1970s; RISC is the future. But other than that, x86 is very much done right in most ways whereas ARM isn't (with the notable exception of being RISC, which of course is really the only advantage of ARM, and the only reason OEMs use ARM). But yeah CISC sucks.
    Largely agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    What does location have to do with it?
    California is the world's 5th largest economy and Britain is the 7th. That is just one USA state. How can Arm , just one British company, flex much muscle over the tech giants in Silicon Valley California ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Elias
    Dude, who the fuck cares about Rockchip RK3399 Firefly? I'd like to install Ubuntu Touch, LineageOS, Replicant and whatever I feel like, on my smartphones, and I can't do that because ARM is. piece shit. Canonical discontinued Ubuntu Touch because ARM is a piece of shit.
    Different people care about different things you are just being selfish/subjective about what you care about here. To each their own. But what started the talk on Arm, in this thread, was my mention of Firefly.

    Also, I don't think it is Arm's fault. For instance, it seems to me the Android bootloader is Hboot and that was probably designed by google and not Arm. Just like Intel and AMD do not design the BIOS/UEFI for other systems. For instance, Ami systems which designs PC BIOS/UEFI systems is a seperate entity from Intel and AMD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elias
    Funny thing is, I've installed Debian
    I am installing it right now over MxLinux.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elias
    You want to do things with command-line, that's fine. I prefer GUI because I have other shit to do in front of the computer than read endless of documentation and installation instruction manuals all day about how to install an operating system. Yeah I know CLI is powerful in its own right, still, I prefer using GUI when available. If an operating system doesn't have a graphical installer, it's just not worth my time. I do use command-line from time to time btw, like Python, PuTTY, Ubuntu Terminal and so on. I do have some CLI experience. It's just not my cup of tea.
    Yeah, well to each their own. With Arch Linux, Crux Linux, and Gentoo Linux one can control one system totally. Also, I notice they tend to be faster than distros like Fedora and Ubuntu which just throw a bunch of stuff on your desktop figuring you want to use it then when you want to delete a lot of stuff you might enter dependency hell or break it. I also, use the GUI but that is after install and setup. Anyway, I am using the GUI on the Debian installer now but in my mind it is just worthless shiny wrapper over their other ncurses mode install. There has to be at least a few advanced Linux distros that are like this. Arch Linux is for control freaks and Ubuntu is for people who just want a GUI to slap things on your system willy-nilly.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    This is all beside the point anyway. Point is, Android devices are intentionally retarded in that they're heavily restricted and locked down these days (in the name of "security" of course), and you can thank Apple and various OEMs for that, and of course also ARM for designing such a shitty ecosystem. I'm not letting ARM off the hook just because it's a British company.
    I don't see how Arm has anything to do with it. Hboot , the Android bootloader is probably not designed by Arm and not being able to have root on Android , unlike Linux, is google's decision and with each new version of Android it gets harder to root the device.

    Also, Hboot definitely seems to be designed by google as U-boot , on other Arm devices, has supported UEFI since 2016 like in the Firefly.
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  6. #75
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    Plant of Life = Biological Magic 麻 EliasAlucard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Yeah, I know my Barnes and Noble Nook Plus 2 eReader is based on an old version of android so it was easy to root.
    And now with Project Treble being mandatory for Android 8+ devices, the Xperia Open Devices program basically means you can install custom-ROMs like LineageOS and always get the latest version of Android.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Yeah, well google is getting evil they now filter politically incorrect material very extensively , the NSA has a backdoor in it and spies on you in other ways to make money through marketers.
    Censorship in general has been increasing ever since Trump won. YouTube, Twitter, Facebook and Apple all banned Alex Jones because he was Trump's most vocal supporter, so there's always that. And there's been massive purges all over social media.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Yeah, we have not talked about this for years or at least a year so I forgot.
    Right. I've been ranting against Linux since 2005. The reason being is that Linux was a piece of shit back then. I was installing my first Linux distro back then, Fedora if I remember correctly. Anyway, I clicked on the C: and deleted deleted it, but Linux being the piece of shit it is, deleted my entire hard drive (i.e., all my other partitions too). So I've hated Linux ever since. Of course GNU/Linux has improved a lot since, but it still has a long way to go before it can replace the current Windows experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Anyway, the highpoint of Linux was 2007 the Linux journal website is going to shut down in 2 days:

    The golden age of FOSS was around 2007 when Linux was mainstream in corporate IT and developers worked with it directly.
    I would say the golden age of FOSS was around 2010, when Ubuntu 10.04 LTS Lucid Lynx was released, and Android was really becoming something impressive and growing, and so on. After that, Canonical began fixing something that wasn't broken, with their Unity bullshit, and this led to a lot of forks which eventually led to Linux Mint growing in popularity, Ubuntu MATE being forked (which was pretty much forked from and a continuation of Lucid Lynx). Ad nowadays the quasi FOSS permissive licenses like 2-clause BSD, Apache 2.0 and so on, have overtaken the GPL in popularity, and ultimately that means less free and open source software, because the GPL is hardcore FOSS.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Linux and FOSS are more hidden than ever. So many of those FOSS projects on GitHub ultimately are used as building blocks for proprietary software. So many companies that seem to champion FOSS by helping upstream projects they rely on also choose to keep the projects they write themselves proprietary. Although Linux dominates the cloud, more and more developers and system administrators who use the cloud do so via proprietary APIs and proprietary services.
    Yeah we can't count out proprietary software yet. I wouldn't be surprised if Android eventually goes proprietary / closed source. I mean iOS pretty much already has, as is the case with macOS.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    The same is true on mobile devices, which are dominated by proprietary software even though Android is based on Linux.
    If Android was released under the GPL, it would be true FOSS. It's not because it's published under the Apache 2.0 license, which does allow proprietary software development. Permissive licenses are half assed open source.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    The FOSS community has also changed --FOSS advocates in many circumstances don't use Linux themselves, and they often make presentations on the benefits of FOSS from proprietary laptops running Windows or macOS.
    And why would they not? Desktop Linux just isn't fully mature yet. It works great for browsing the internetz, watching films, playing music and doing LibreOffice stuff, but there's still a lot of things that aren't ready or working properly on Linux.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Many if not most web application developers write their web applications intended for Linux from Windows or macOS environments, and if they use Linux at all, it's within a virtual machine.
    And we can only blame Linux developers for not making desktop Linux attractive enough. File creation time stamp is a good example of how unfinished GNU/Linux is. I mean this is basics for crying out loud.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    If current trends continue, we could be back to a world of proprietary software, vendor lock-in and closed protocols like the world before 1994.
    Yeah, and the *BSDs are partially to blame for that. You want a fully free and open software world, then you have to make your open source software, user friendly (basically, compelling to use FOSS). If you don't, you have no right to complain about most people buying switching to proprietary closed source software. I mean look, I'd much rather play video games that are released under the GPLv3, but I don't because open source games suck.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    On a related theme, open-source advocate Eric Raymond wrote on the Linux Journal site about the problem of critical internet services being dependent on unpaid volunteers "because they can't be monetized and thus don't have any revenue stream for the maintainers to live on".
    Well that's always going to be a problem with open source.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    The big corporations will always step in to fix things, but to Raymond that is part of the problem. Wouldn't you like to have an internet that's less beholden to the mercy of large corporations and governments?
    That's why I install AOSP custom-ROMs and Ubuntu MATE, Trisquel and so on. Of course we can't completely avoid corporations, but yeah, pro-people software and technology is the way to go.

    By the way, you copied/pasted that from this article:

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/0...tary_software/

    Indent tag and URL, nigga!

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    California is the world's 5th largest economy and Britain is the 7th. That is just one USA state. How can Arm , just one British company, flex much muscle over the tech giants in Silicon Valley California ?
    ARM could have made UEFI a mandatory requirement in their processors. Windows RT devices run on ARM processors, and these Windows RT devices do have UEFI. Locked down UEFI, sure, but still UEFI.

    Android's Open Handset Alliance retarded the requirements for Android devices, and basically went with how Apple did ARM (Apple of course loves the walled garden approach).

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Different people care about different things you are just being selfish/subjective about what you care about here. To each their own. But what started the talk on Arm, in this thread, was my mention of Firefly.

    Also, I don't think it is Arm's fault. For instance, it seems to me the Android bootloader is Hboot and that was probably designed by google and not Arm. Just like Intel and AMD do not design the BIOS/UEFI for other systems. For instance, Ami systems which designs PC BIOS/UEFI systems is a seperate entity from Intel and AMD.
    I know AMD and Intel don't design UEFI (I have UEFI motherboards on my desktops and laptops). That's still beside the point. The point here is, regardless of who's responsible (ARM or the OHA), smartphones and related devices, are completely retarded in their lack of hardware standardization, whereas with x86 based computers, we get UEFI, which is an important, user friendly standard, and it allows you to compile one x86-64 operating system that can easily be installed on all x86-64 computers. Look at this shit man:

    https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/

    ^^ Every Android device requires its own LineageOS build. That's retarded, and I blame ARM, Google and all the Android OEMs.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    I am installing it right now over MxLinux.
    Why not Devuan, given your hostility to systemd?

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Yeah, well to each their own. With Arch Linux, Crux Linux, and Gentoo Linux one can control one system totally. Also, I notice they tend to be faster than distros like Fedora and Ubuntu which just throw a bunch of stuff on your desktop figuring you want to use it then when you want to delete a lot of stuff you might enter dependency hell or break it. I also, use the GUI but that is after install and setup. Anyway, I am using the GUI on the Debian installer now but in my mind it is just worthless shiny wrapper over their other ncurses mode install. There has to be at least a few advanced Linux distros that are like this. Arch Linux is for control freaks and Ubuntu is for people who just want a GUI to slap things on your system willy-nilly.
    Difference is, some of us just want to relax and do things the easy way

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    I don't see how Arm has anything to do with it. Hboot , the Android bootloader is probably not designed by Arm and not being able to have root on Android , unlike Linux, is google's decision and with each new version of Android it gets harder to root the device.
    How is it Google's decision? If it were Google's decision, Sony wouldn't be allowed to have their Open Devices program:

    https://developer.sony.com/develop/o...es-maintained/

    ^^ That's why you should only buy Xperia devices as far as ARM goes. Problem is, iGnorant iDiots don't value pro-consumer stuff like this, and buy tightly locked down, heavily restricted iPhones and Errorsung. And then Google and its OEMs interpret this as hey, it's cool if we sell closed source software and walled garden smartphones, because Joe 6Pack doesn't understand this nerd shit anyway, so why bother giving our users freedom and control?

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Also, Hboot definitely seems to be designed by google as U-boot , on other Arm devices, has supported UEFI since 2016 like in the Firefly.
    U-boot sounds cool, I hope it grows in popularity, because it's what ARM needs. And that Firefly mobo looks great too.
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  7. #76
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    Molecular Biologist DracoSentien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    And now with Project Treble being mandatory for Android 8+ devices, the Xperia Open Devices program basically means you can install custom-ROMs like LineageOS and always get the latest version of Android.
    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    Censorship in general has been increasing ever since Trump won. YouTube, Twitter, Facebook and Apple all banned Alex Jones because he was Trump's most vocal supporter, so there's always that. And there's been massive purges all over social media.
    Yeah, but since Trump is not the most politically correct guy I was not expecting that. The search engine duckuckgo.com and bitchute.com are still not really censored, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    Right. I've been ranting against Linux since 2005. The reason being is that Linux was a piece of shit back then. I was installing my first Linux distro back then, Fedora if I remember correctly. Anyway, I clicked on the C: and deleted deleted it, but Linux being the piece of shit it is, deleted my entire hard drive (i.e., all my other partitions too). So I've hated Linux ever since. Of course GNU/Linux has improved a lot since, but it still has a long way to go before it can replace the current Windows experience.
    Fedora is not Linux as Linux is just the kernel. Fedora is one of the most commercialized version of GNU/Linux as well as OpenSuSe. It sounds like you picked the wrong distro. Anyway, Linux is supposed to be a Unix replacement so it is not supposed to be a Windows-like experience that is old school Linux users, like myself, don't like new comers into the Linux world. For instance, with OpenSolaris one uses it as either as a Workstation or Server. A workstation is something you system administrate , yourself, and do real work on e.g. computer programming. I'd say since MacOSX has a Linux-like or BSD-like Darwin core that Linux at it's most userfriendly is supposed to be more like MacOSX like the linux distribution ElementaryOS and it is not supposed to be like Windows. At least , with a Mac, I have access to all unix utils at its core and with Linux I have access to Unix-like equivalent Linux utils at it's core. I mean the experience of using it and no the whether the desktop parts of MacOSX are closed source or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlcuard
    I would say the golden age of FOSS was around 2010, when Ubuntu 10.04 LTS Lucid Lynx was released, and Android was really becoming something impressive and growing, and so on. After that, Canonical began fixing something that wasn't broken, with their Unity bullshit, and this led to a lot of forks which eventually led to Linux Mint growing in popularity, Ubuntu MATE being forked (which was pretty much forked from and a continuation of Lucid Lynx). Ad nowadays the quasi FOSS permissive licenses like 2-clause BSD, Apache 2.0 and so on, have overtaken the GPL in popularity, and ultimately that means less free and open source software, because the GPL is hardcore FOSS.
    I dunno, I don't like Ubuntu it is commercial too and Unity and all the other failed experiments. Mark Shuttleworth tried all kinds of experiments to make his money back with Ubuntu but they all failed.


    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    Yeah we can't count out proprietary software yet. I wouldn't be surprised if Android eventually goes proprietary / closed source. I mean iOS pretty much already has, as is the case with macOS.

    If Android was released under the GPL, it would be true FOSS. It's not because it's published under the Apache 2.0 license, which does allow proprietary software development. Permissive licenses are half assed open source.

    And why would they not? Desktop Linux just isn't fully mature yet. It works great for browsing the internetz, watching films, playing music and doing LibreOffice stuff, but there's still a lot of things that aren't ready or working properly on Linux.
    There is not a lot of stuff missing on Linux except things like Photoshop and Games since I am not a gamer type dude al lot of stuff like STEAM, for Linux, looks cool enough for me. Debian has a pure blend for audio and multimedia work (notice I sound work and not usage) . Debian has like 50,000 application programs:

    https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMultimedia

    https://blends.debian.org/multimedia/tasks/

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasEulcard
    And we can only blame Linux developers for not making desktop Linux attractive enough. File creation time stamp is a good example of how unfinished GNU/Linux is. I mean this is basics for crying out loud.
    I dunno what you mean as the file stamp time is right in bash and that is how I mostly interact with files.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlcuard
    Yeah, and the *BSDs are partially to blame for that. You want a fully free and open software world, then you have to make your open source software, user friendly (basically, compelling to use FOSS). If you don't, you have no right to complain about most people buying switching to proprietary closed source software. I mean look, I'd much rather play video games that are released under the GPLv3, but I don't because open source games suck.
    I don't really care if most people use closed source proprietary software. My problem is if there is a lack of open source alternatives. You don't have to have a huge market share to have a niche ecosystem that thrives.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    Well that's always going to be a problem with open source.
    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    That's why I install AOSP custom-ROMs and Ubuntu MATE, Trisquel and so on. Of course we can't completely avoid corporations, but yeah, pro-people software and technology is the way to go.
    I can't use Trisquel because I have like three things, including my wifi card, that are based on proprietary firmware blobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    By the way, you copied/pasted that from this article:

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/0...tary_software/

    Indent tag and URL, nigga!
    Yeah, sorry, I was installing a Linux distro at the same time I was talking to you so I got sloppy and just wanted to get that out there real quick.

    ARM could have made UEFI a mandatory requirement in their processors. Windows RT devices run on ARM processors, and these Windows RT devices do have UEFI. Locked down UEFI, sure, but still UEFI.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    Android's Open Handset Alliance retarded the requirements for Android devices, and basically went with how Apple did ARM (Apple of course loves the walled garden approach).

    I know AMD and Intel don't design UEFI (I have UEFI motherboards on my desktops and laptops). That's still beside the point. The point here is, regardless of who's responsible (ARM or the OHA), smartphones and related devices, are completely retarded in their lack of hardware standardization, whereas with x86 based computers, we get UEFI, which is an important, user friendly standard, and it allows you to compile one x86-64 operating system that can easily be installed on all x86-64 computers. Look at this shit man:

    https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/

    ^^ Every Android device requires its own LineageOS build. That's retarded, and I blame ARM, Google and all the Android OEMs.
    I don't blame ARM all that much because I think they are kind of neutral or ambivalent and just want to make money. For instance, if Silicon Valley was producing 100% OpenSource GPL licensed products Arm would still sell to them and on the flipside if Silicon Valley was selling 100% proprietary products ARM would still sell to them


    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    Why not Devuan, given your hostility to systemd?
    I changed my mind in the middle of the Debian install and chose slackware-current instead. SystemD was originally released too early and had major bugs and after they fixed the bugs SystemD still remains a power play by the corporate organization Redhat.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlcuard
    Difference is, some of us just want to relax and do things the easy way
    Yeah, well it is not 1997 , anymore, when Linux was exclusively for Geeks so there are plenty of distros that cater to that. I still don't think Linux is supposed to offer a Windows-like experience , though. At most it would be like OpenSolaris or MacOSX both of which have GUI stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    How is it Google's decision? If it were Google's decision, Sony wouldn't be allowed to have their Open Devices program:

    https://developer.sony.com/develop/o...es-maintained/

    ^^ That's why you should only buy Xperia devices as far as ARM goes. Problem is, iGnorant iDiots don't value pro-consumer stuff like this, and buy tightly locked down, heavily restricted iPhones and Errorsung. And then Google and its OEMs interpret this as hey, it's cool if we sell closed source software and walled garden smartphones, because Joe 6Pack doesn't understand this nerd shit anyway, so why bother giving our users freedom and control?
    Look at google pixel phone versus sony Xperia so it is google's fault but google are not Nazi's about it so they allow Xperia to have open-devices.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    U-boot sounds cool, I hope it grows in popularity, because it's what ARM needs. And that Firefly mobo looks great too.
    Yeah, well I just think this is a case of ARM being neutral/ambivalent and they are not firmly either in the proprietary closed source camp or the open source camp they just want to make money and it is not about ideology for them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    And now with Project Treble being mandatory for Android 8+ devices, the Xperia Open Devices program basically means you can install custom-ROMs like LineageOS and always get the latest version of Android.
    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    Censorship in general has been increasing ever since Trump won. YouTube, Twitter, Facebook and Apple all banned Alex Jones because he was Trump's most vocal supporter, so there's always that. And there's been massive purges all over social media.
    Yeah, but since Trump is not the most politically correct guy I was not expecting that. The search engine duckuckgo.com and bitchute.com are still not really censored, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    Right. I've been ranting against Linux since 2005. The reason being is that Linux was a piece of shit back then. I was installing my first Linux distro back then, Fedora if I remember correctly. Anyway, I clicked on the C: and deleted deleted it, but Linux being the piece of shit it is, deleted my entire hard drive (i.e., all my other partitions too). So I've hated Linux ever since. Of course GNU/Linux has improved a lot since, but it still has a long way to go before it can replace the current Windows experience.
    Fedora is not Linux as Linux is just the kernel. Fedora is one of the most commercialized version of GNU/Linux as well as OpenSuSe. It sounds like you picked the wrong distro. Anyway, Linux is supposed to be a Unix replacement so it is not supposed to be a Windows-like experience that is old school Linux users, like myself, don't like new comers into the Linux world. For instance, with OpenSolaris one uses it as either as a Workstation or Server. A workstation is something you system administrate , yourself, and do real work on e.g. computer programming. I'd say since MacOSX has a Linux-like or BSD-like Darwin core that Linux at it's most userfriendly is supposed to be more like MacOSX like the linux distribution ElementaryOS and it is not supposed to be like Windows. At least , with a Mac, I have access to all unix utils at its core and with Linux I have access to Unix-like equivalent Linux utils at it's core. I mean the experience of using it and no the whether the desktop parts of MacOSX are closed source or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlcuard
    I would say the golden age of FOSS was around 2010, when Ubuntu 10.04 LTS Lucid Lynx was released, and Android was really becoming something impressive and growing, and so on. After that, Canonical began fixing something that wasn't broken, with their Unity bullshit, and this led to a lot of forks which eventually led to Linux Mint growing in popularity, Ubuntu MATE being forked (which was pretty much forked from and a continuation of Lucid Lynx). Ad nowadays the quasi FOSS permissive licenses like 2-clause BSD, Apache 2.0 and so on, have overtaken the GPL in popularity, and ultimately that means less free and open source software, because the GPL is hardcore FOSS.
    I dunno, I don't like Ubuntu it is commercial too and Unity and all the other failed experiments. Mark Shuttleworth tried all kinds of experiments to make his money back with Ubuntu but they all failed.


    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    Yeah we can't count out proprietary software yet. I wouldn't be surprised if Android eventually goes proprietary / closed source. I mean iOS pretty much already has, as is the case with macOS.

    If Android was released under the GPL, it would be true FOSS. It's not because it's published under the Apache 2.0 license, which does allow proprietary software development. Permissive licenses are half assed open source.

    And why would they not? Desktop Linux just isn't fully mature yet. It works great for browsing the internetz, watching films, playing music and doing LibreOffice stuff, but there's still a lot of things that aren't ready or working properly on Linux.
    There is not a lot of stuff missing on Linux except things like Photoshop and Games since I am not a gamer type dude al lot of stuff like STEAM, for Linux, looks cool enough for me. Debian has a pure blend for audio and multimedia work (notice I sound work and not usage) :

    https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMultimedia

    https://blends.debian.org/multimedia/tasks/

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasEulcard
    And we can only blame Linux developers for not making desktop Linux attractive enough. File creation time stamp is a good example of how unfinished GNU/Linux is. I mean this is basics for crying out loud.
    I dunno what you mean as the file stamp time is right in bash and that is how I mostly interact with files.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlcuard
    Yeah, and the *BSDs are partially to blame for that. You want a fully free and open software world, then you have to make your open source software, user friendly (basically, compelling to use FOSS). If you don't, you have no right to complain about most people buying switching to proprietary closed source software. I mean look, I'd much rather play video games that are released under the GPLv3, but I don't because open source games suck.
    I don't really care if most people use closed source proprietary software. My problem is if there is a lack of open source alternatives. You don't have to have a huge market share to have a niche ecosystem that thrives.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    Well that's always going to be a problem with open source.
    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    That's why I install AOSP custom-ROMs and Ubuntu MATE, Trisquel and so on. Of course we can't completely avoid corporations, but yeah, pro-people software and technology is the way to go.
    I can't use Trisquel because I have like three things, including my wifi card, that are based on proprietary firware blobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    By the way, you copied/pasted that from this article:

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/0...tary_software/

    Indent tag and URL, nigga!
    Yeah, sorry, I was installing a Linux distro at the same time I was talking to you so I got sloppy and just wanted to get that out there real quick.

    ARM could have made UEFI a mandatory requirement in their processors. Windows RT devices run on ARM processors, and these Windows RT devices do have UEFI. Locked down UEFI, sure, but still UEFI.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    Android's Open Handset Alliance retarded the requirements for Android devices, and basically went with how Apple did ARM (Apple of course loves the walled garden approach).

    I know AMD and Intel don't design UEFI (I have UEFI motherboards on my desktops and laptops). That's still beside the point. The point here is, regardless of who's responsible (ARM or the OHA), smartphones and related devices, are completely retarded in their lack of hardware standardization, whereas with x86 based computers, we get UEFI, which is an important, user friendly standard, and it allows you to compile one x86-64 operating system that can easily be installed on all x86-64 computers. Look at this shit man:

    https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/

    ^^ Every Android device requires its own LineageOS build. That's retarded, and I blame ARM, Google and all the Android OEMs.
    I don't blame ARM all that much because I think they are kind of neutral or ambivalent and just want to make money. For instance, if Silicon Valley was producing 100% OpenSource GPL licensed products Arm would still sell to them and on the flipside if Silicon Valley was selling 100% proprietary products ARM would still sell to them


    I changed my mind in the middle of the Debian install and chose slackware-current instead. SystemD was originally released too early and had major bugs and after they fixed the bugs SystemD still remains a power play by the corporate organization Redhat.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlcuard
    Difference is, some of us just want to relax and do things the easy way
    Yeah, well it is not 1997 , anymore, when Linux was exclusively for Geeks so there are plenty of distros that cater to that. I still don't think Linux is supposed to offer a Windows-like experience , though. At most it would be like OpenSolaris or MacOSX both of which have GUI stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    How is it Google's decision? If it were Google's decision, Sony wouldn't be allowed to have their Open Devices program:

    https://developer.sony.com/develop/o...es-maintained/

    ^^ That's why you should only buy Xperia devices as far as ARM goes. Problem is, iGnorant iDiots don't value pro-consumer stuff like this, and buy tightly locked down, heavily restricted iPhones and Errorsung. And then Google and its OEMs interpret this as hey, it's cool if we sell closed source software and walled garden smartphones, because Joe 6Pack doesn't understand this nerd shit anyway, so why bother giving our users freedom and control?
    Look at google pixel phone versus sony Xperia so it is google's fault but google are not Nazi's about it so they allow Xperia to have open-devices.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    U-boot sounds cool, I hope it grows in popularity, because it's what ARM needs. And that Firefly mobo looks great too.
    Yeah, well I just think this is a case of ARM being neutral/ambivalent and they are not firmly either in the proprietary closed source camp or the open source camp they just want to make money and it is not about ideology for them.
    Last edited by DracoSentien; 2019-08-13 at 17:09.
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    Using 4 populations approximation
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Yeah, x86/CISC is outdated crap.
    I wonder why almost all the RISC cpu's are gone since the 80ths, if they really are so much better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Noi View Post
    I wonder why almost all the RISC cpu's are gone since the 80ths, if they really are so much better.
    The reason for that has nothing to do with RISC CPUs being technically inferior, but simply due to the conservative business practices of Microsoft and Intel:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wintel

    ^^ Proprietary vendor lock-in serves them well. Why would Microsoft adopt RISC? No one would bother switching to a new Windows that is incompatible with all the legacy x86 programs, just look at how Windows RT, which is ARM/RISC based, flopped. And Windows Phone for that matter, was an epic fail too. It's not that Windows was ever a good operating system, or somehow superior to Mac OS, it's just that Microsoft did it right with their licensing model, which Google largely replicated with Android: OEMs distribute your operating system along with the computers they sell. This strategy wins every single time against Apple's control freak approach.

    Anyway, RISC is far superior where it matters: energy efficiency. Modern smartphones have 8 core CPUs, impressive graphics cards and so on, and that's with passive cooling (no fans). While Intel Atom can be passively cooled too, it's nowhere as powerful as the high-end ARM processors, and even then it sucks up all the battery. And keep in mind, ARM is actually crap processors; PowerPC, that's RISC at its finest, especially the Cell processor architecture (like the one the PS3 had). As much as I like AMD, I wish they sold PowerPC processors instead of this x86 crap.
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