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Thread: Ancient Egyptian Mummy Genomes159 days old

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    20% SSA admixture is A LOT. It's also more dissimilar than something like 20% Japanese admixture. On a global three-dimensional PCA plot (which is what really matters), modern Egyptians are like halfway between Europeans and Somalis/Horners. There's no way in hell the original non-SSA admixed proto-Egyptians would cluster that far away from the main West Eurasian gene pool.

    www.scs.illinois.edu/~mcdonald/PCA84pops.html

    ^^ Modern Egyptians (and Berber Mozabites) are that far from Armenians (and Assyrians), simply due to their SSA admixture. I'd bet something like 100 bucks that the original Egyptians will cluster right next to the ancient Assyrians.
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
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  3. #552
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    You are going against all the datas we have so far.

    Egyptians with some African ancestry are still closer to Jordan Bronze Age and Neolithic Levantines than Assyrians are.

    Even on PCA , they plot coser to one another.
    Last edited by Dohan.; 2017-05-11 at 15:41.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    I'd bet something like 100 bucks that the original Egyptians will cluster right next to the ancient Assyrians.
    I will take you up on that bet.
    Does "Original Egyptians" = Predynastic or Old Kingdom?

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    On an Eurasian PCA plot , We can see Jordan Bronze Age are closest to Yemenite Jews. Egyptians are fairly close as well.

    On a global PCA plot which takes more SSA admixture into consideration , Egyptians are significantly removed but overall they remain closer to Jordan Bronze Age than Assyrians.

    This confirm to me Jordan Bronze Age have more Iranian Neolithic , East African and Natufian ancestry than the previous Levantine Neolithics. There was an increasement of those 3 ancestries in the Levant by the Bronze Age.

    Levant Neolithic are drifted westwards towards North Africans Berbers because they have less Iranian Neolithic / CHG admixture and more WHG admixture. They clearly drift towards a Sardinian/Anatolian Neolithic cluster that lies even much more westwards.

    Assyrians are drifted North East due to all the ANE , CHG/Iranian Neolithic , East Eurasian and even recent Armenian admixture for some of them that increases steppe/ANE affinities.

    What is Ancient Assyrians anyway. Ancient Assyrians were basically Akkadian Semitic tribes from Syria colonizing the already Hurritian and Summerian dominated Mesopotamia . The Assyrians Empire was already a mixed empire. We don't know how their results would look like.
    Last edited by Dohan.; 2017-05-11 at 17:16.

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  9. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    I will take you up on that bet.
    Does "Original Egyptians" = Predynastic or Old Kingdom?
    Basically the speakers of the proto-Egyptian language, but I doubt we'll get ancient DNA on them until another decade or so perhaps, so in other words, ancient Egyptians with little to no SSA admixture, regardless of dynasty but before the ancient Assyrians conquered the Egyptian kingdom (i.e., pre-Taharqa Egyptians).

    And btw, let me modify my bet statement: I bet 100 bucks that they will cluster closer to ancient Assyrians than to modern Egyptians, doesn't have to be exactly within the north Mesopotamian / south Caucasian cluster so to say, just closer to Assyrians than to modern Egyptians. And obviously, this has to be on a global 3D PCA plot, not on 2D West Eurasian only PCA plots. Obviously they'll cluster closer to SSA admixed Egyptians if SSA reference populations aren't included in the equation.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2017-05-11 at 16:26. Reason: clarify
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    I'd bet something like 100 bucks that the original Egyptians will cluster right next to the ancient Assyrians.
    IMO you'd probably lose that bet.

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  12. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    20% SSA admixture is A LOT. It's also more dissimilar than something like 20% Japanese admixture. On a global three-dimensional PCA plot (which is what really matters), modern Egyptians are like halfway between Europeans and Somalis/Horners. There's no way in hell the original non-SSA admixed proto-Egyptians would cluster that far away from the main West Eurasian gene pool.

    [url]www.scs.illinois.edu/~mcdonald/PCA84pops.html[/ur
    It might have been different if all the African ancestry of Egyptians was West African.

    It's not the case.
    Large part of African admixture is East African.

    While both are African , West African has something more distinct , more divergent , and this probably lies within the ancestral populations that lead to the formation of West Africans.

    East African component is not as divergent and more outbred too and may lead to less genetic drift.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dohan. View Post
    It might have been different if all the African ancestry of Egyptians was West African.

    It's not the case.
    Large part of African admixture is East African.

    While both are African , West African has something more distinct , more divergent , and this probably lies within the ancestral populations that lead to the formation of West Africans.

    East African component is not as divergent and more outbred too and may lead to less genetic drift.
    Yes:
    At the genome-wide level, Egypt is quite similar to its Levantine neighbours, displaying a mainly Near Eastern (39.8%) and Arabian/North African (30.5%) background, with slightly higher western (5.6%) and eastern (15.1%) African proportions, and lower European (8.4%) and South Asian (0.6%) proportions. The ROLLOFF estimate for admixture in Egypt (using Africans and Europeans as ancestral populations) was 30 generations, predictably young due to continuous gene flow between the two regions. Morocco and Tunisia presented similar western (9.8–12.2%) and eastern African (10.4–12.1%) components and roughly twice the magnitude for each of the European (22.8–25.5%), Near Eastern (21.4–26.0%) and Arabian (28.9–31.0%) pools. Again these young dates show that simple genome-wide dating approaches based on linkage disequilibrium decay must be applied cautiously in complex scenarios of several migrations occurring over a long span of time, such as the ones which took place across the Red Sea, North Africa [56] and Iberia [57].
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0118625
    Oh, and the genetic study is going to be released in two weeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nee4speed111 View Post
    I assume you want Muslim Upper Egyptians, right?

    Here are some Eurogenes K15 results

    From Dar El Salam (lives in Cairo)

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 30.03
    2 Red_Sea 19.72
    3 Northeast_African 18.71
    4 West_Med 15.71
    5 Sub-Saharan 7.55
    6 Atlantic 3.69
    7 West_Asian 3.76

    From Tima

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 37.05
    2 Red_Sea 19.93
    3 Northeast_African 13.58
    4 West_Asian 10.46
    5 Atlantic 7.34
    6 West_Med 6.12
    7 Sub-Saharan 4.73

    From Assuit

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 41.18
    2 Red_Sea 16.58
    3 Northeast_African 11.23
    4 West_Med 10.25
    5 West_Asian 7.16
    6 Sub-Saharan 6.44
    7 Atlantic 3.75
    8 Eastern_Euro 1.19
    9 North_Sea 1.09

    Not too sure about this one, said he was from Beni Suef

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 41.70
    2 West_Med 13.17
    3 Red_Sea 12.92
    4 Northeast_African 11.26
    5 West_Asian 9.35
    6 Atlantic 3.61
    7 Sub-Saharan 3.08
    8 Baltic 2.74
    9 South_Asian 1.85

    From Aswan (When I asked, he said he had a "Nubian Background", but he himself was not Nubian, he wasn't particularly clear about it.

    Population Percent
    1 East_Med 31.99
    2 Northeast_African 28.61
    3 Red_Sea 21.40
    4 West_Med 8.40
    5 Sub-Saharan 5.55
    6 West_Asian 3.03
    Hey do you have the Eurogenes Farmers/HGs results for the two individuals from Luxor and Aswan respectively?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gihanga_Rwanda View Post
    Hey do you have the Eurogenes Farmers/HGs results for the two individuals from Luxor and Aswan respectively?
    From Dar El Salam

    Anatolian Farmer 12.80
    Baltic Hunter Gatherer -
    Middle Eastern Herder 33.97
    East Asian Farmer 0.72
    South American Hunter Gatherer -
    South Asian Hunter Gatherer -
    North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer -
    East African Pastoralist 19.75
    Oceanian Hunter Gatherer -
    Mediterranean Farmer 25.34
    Pygmy Hunter Gatherer -
    Bantu Farmer 7.42
    From Tima

    Population
    Anatolian Farmer 22.44
    Baltic Hunter Gatherer -
    Middle Eastern Herder 39.01
    East Asian Farmer 0.73
    South American Hunter Gatherer -
    South Asian Hunter Gatherer -
    North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer -
    East African Pastoralist 14.92
    Oceanian Hunter Gatherer 0.40
    Mediterranean Farmer 18.50
    Pygmy Hunter Gatherer -
    Bantu Farmer 4.00
    From Assuit
    Population
    Anatolian Farmer 23.77
    Baltic Hunter Gatherer -
    Middle Eastern Herder 33.51
    East Asian Farmer -
    South American Hunter Gatherer -
    South Asian Hunter Gatherer -
    North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer 0.65
    East African Pastoralist 13.47
    Oceanian Hunter Gatherer 0.36
    Mediterranean Farmer 22.98
    Pygmy Hunter Gatherer -
    Bantu Farmer 5.26
    From Aswan (Has some sort of Nubian background)
    Population
    Anatolian Farmer 10.96
    Baltic Hunter Gatherer -
    Middle Eastern Herder 36.98
    East Asian Farmer 0.26
    South American Hunter Gatherer -
    South Asian Hunter Gatherer -
    North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer -
    East African Pastoralist 29.76
    Oceanian Hunter Gatherer 0.23
    Mediterranean Farmer 16.21
    Pygmy Hunter Gatherer -
    Bantu Farmer 5.62
    Keep in mind, these are all muslim Egyptians & that the cline among copts is much more gradual, its not as regional as muslim Egyptians it seems.

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