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Thread: Haplogroup R1b sino-caucasian or indo-european?87 days old

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugevit View Post
    About the origins of Indo-Europeans, Russians and earliest humans.

    Articles by Russian geneticists on Klysov' phenomen : http://генофонд.рф/?page_id=520
    Article by a leading Russian population geneticist Elena Balanovskaya on Klysov's pseudo-scientific claims: http://генофонд.рф/?page_id=585
    An article by Vadim Verenich : http://генофонд.рф/?page_id=604

    There are articles on Klyosov's claims by archaelogists, historians, linguists and anthropologists most are on http://http://генофонд.рф/

    Klyosovshina (Klyosov's claims) and pseudo-science became synonymous a long time ago in many circles.
    @Vadim Verenich is already such an authority? My Belurussian I2a-L621 brüder in Metal?

    Klyossov is a leading source for all the Turbo Slavs out there, in the internets.
    Last edited by Pioterus; 2017-07-01 at 13:11.
    and the IEEE Milestone for breaking the Enigma Code goes to... Polish Cipher Bureau 1932-39

    “We know each other,” he agreed. “They say that you follow in my steps.”
    “I go my own way. But you, you had never, until just now, looked behind you. You turned back today for the first time.”
    Geralt remained silent. Tired, he had nothing to say. “How... How will it happen?” he asked her at last, coldly and without emotion. “I will take you by the hand,” she replied, looking him straight in the eye. “I will take you by the hand and lead you across the meadow, through a cold and wet fog.” “And after? What is there beyond the fog?” “Nothing,” she replied, smiling. “After that, there is nothing.”
    ― Andrzej Sapkowski
    Świat się zmienia, słońce zachodzi, a wódka się kończy [The world is changing, sun is setting and we're running out of Vodka.]
    ― Andrzej Sapkowski

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  4. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by IstenmeyenTuy View Post
    He has genetic references
    Maybe, but that doesn't matter when his hypotheses (not just this one) are mostly nonsensical and look like they were posted by some two digit IQ moron on Aprishitty, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by IstenmeyenTuy View Post
    and quite convincing.
    Not really.

    Quote Originally Posted by IstenmeyenTuy View Post
    He is a scientist.
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by IstenmeyenTuy View Post
    Why should be ignored?
    Because he's a pseudo-scientist.

    Look, just because someone links R1b to Turkic languages, doesn't mean he's right. This is of course a typical bias with some people, this ethnic bias; just look at how that other crackpot, Varg Vikernes, is taken seriously by some white nationalists, just because he says he likes paganism ("I like our ethnic gods, therefore I can never be wrong about anything!"). Ethnic bias, will always be a problem.

    Some subclades of R1b could of course have been present in the proto-Turkic community, or elsewhere, but that doesn't mean R1b is "Sino-Caucasian".

    Quote Originally Posted by Semitic Duwa View Post
    His methods are pretty much entirely illegitimate to begin with. But that's above the point, "Sino-Caucasian" is a crackpot theory.
    Yes. The Sino-Tibetan language family is quite isolated (more so than other language families), and I have yet to see one Y-DNA haplogroup spawn 3-4 language families.

    I find it amazing that a fringe crackpot like Anatole Klyosov, managed to publish that many papers. Of course he was never published in a serious, credible academic journal like Nature, but still, you'd think, that since he got the chance to be published at least somewhere, he would put some effort and thought into being as scientific (meaning, accurate) as possible with his hypotheses.

    That said he did make an accurate statement once in a while, such as his claim that Kurds aren't Aryans (I can't remember why he singled out the Kurds though, I mean it's equally true for Persians and Hindus/Pakis), and that they only have some minor PIE admixture, however, that doesn't excuse the rest of his nonsense.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2017-07-01 at 13:19.
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    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioterus View Post
    @Vadim Verenich is already such an authority? My Belurussian I2a-L621 brüder in Metal?
    Vadim Verenich is not an authority. One doesn't need to be an authority to see inconsistencies in certain claims. Vadim Verenich knows a thing or two about I2a-Dinaric clade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugevit View Post
    Vadim Verenich is not an authority. One doesn't need to be an authority to see inconsistencies in certain claims. Vadim Verenich knows a thing or two about I2a-Dinaric clade.
    Ok, I think he published a thing or two and has a very sharp mind, but got bit surprised with your citation.
    and the IEEE Milestone for breaking the Enigma Code goes to... Polish Cipher Bureau 1932-39

    “We know each other,” he agreed. “They say that you follow in my steps.”
    “I go my own way. But you, you had never, until just now, looked behind you. You turned back today for the first time.”
    Geralt remained silent. Tired, he had nothing to say. “How... How will it happen?” he asked her at last, coldly and without emotion. “I will take you by the hand,” she replied, looking him straight in the eye. “I will take you by the hand and lead you across the meadow, through a cold and wet fog.” “And after? What is there beyond the fog?” “Nothing,” she replied, smiling. “After that, there is nothing.”
    ― Andrzej Sapkowski
    Świat się zmienia, słońce zachodzi, a wódka się kończy [The world is changing, sun is setting and we're running out of Vodka.]
    ― Andrzej Sapkowski

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    In Belarus Alyona Kushniarevich is publishing on population genetics. She gets a fair share of criticism on some occasions, as many other scientists in the field.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pioterus View Post
    Ok, I think he published a thing or two and has a very sharp mind, but got bit surprised with your citation.
    What's surprising about my citation? Vadim saw inconsistencies in Klyosov's claims, so he wrote an article and editors of генофонд.рф site (the site attracts many scientists from different fields) published Vadim's article.

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    Isn't Klyossov a bit Kremlin backed in his turboslavisms? I tend to have such a feeling reading some stuff about him.
    and the IEEE Milestone for breaking the Enigma Code goes to... Polish Cipher Bureau 1932-39

    “We know each other,” he agreed. “They say that you follow in my steps.”
    “I go my own way. But you, you had never, until just now, looked behind you. You turned back today for the first time.”
    Geralt remained silent. Tired, he had nothing to say. “How... How will it happen?” he asked her at last, coldly and without emotion. “I will take you by the hand,” she replied, looking him straight in the eye. “I will take you by the hand and lead you across the meadow, through a cold and wet fog.” “And after? What is there beyond the fog?” “Nothing,” she replied, smiling. “After that, there is nothing.”
    ― Andrzej Sapkowski
    Świat się zmienia, słońce zachodzi, a wódka się kończy [The world is changing, sun is setting and we're running out of Vodka.]
    ― Andrzej Sapkowski

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    There’s a mathematician Anatoly Fomenko in Russia, who's well educated. He also writes about alternative history. There are educated people such as Klyosov and Fomenko to which pseudo-science is appealing. What I noticed pseudo claims are common among linguists.

    Fomenko claims

    The New Chronology is a pseudohistorical theory which argues that the conventional chronology of Middle Eastern and European history is fundamentally flawed, and that events attributed to the civilizations of the Roman Empire, Ancient Greece and Ancient Egypt actually occurred during the Middle Ages, more than a thousand years later. The central concepts of the New Chronology are derived from the ideas of Russian scholar Nikolai Morozov (1854–1946),[1] although work by French scholar Jean Hardouin (1646–1729) can be viewed as an earlier predecessor.[2] However, the New Chronology is most commonly associated with Russian mathematician Anatoly Fomenko (born 1945), although published works on the subject are actually a collaboration between Fomenko and several other mathematicians. The concept is most fully explained in History: Fiction or Science?, originally published in Russian.
    The New Chronology also contains a reconstruction, an alternative chronology, radically shorter than the standard historical timeline, because all ancient history is "folded" onto the Middle Ages. According to Fomenko's claims, the written history of humankind goes only as far back as AD 800, there is almost no information about events between AD 800–1000, and most known historical events took place in AD 1000–1500.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_(Fomenko)
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pioterus View Post
    Isn't Klyossov a bit Kremlin backed in his turboslavisms? I tend to have such a feeling reading some stuff about him.
    I don't think Kremlin interferes. Balanovskaya and Balanovsky are getting government funding on population genetics studies in Russia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugevit View Post
    Klyosov does not have a good reputation among known Russian scientists to put it mildly. As Alias stated he is not taken seriously when it comes to the science of genetics.
    not only Klyosov the whole http://s155239215.onlinehome.us is nothing else than primitive turkofascist propaganda only totally retarded morons take serious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Yes. The Sino-Tibetan language family is quite isolated (more so than other language families), and I have yet to see one Y-DNA haplogroup spawn 3-4 language families.
    "Sino-Caucasian" (now called "Dené-Caucasian") is, along with "Nostratic", one of the main macrofamilies the Muscovite school produced. "Dené-Caucasian" presupposes a genetic relationship between Sino-Tibetan, "Caucasian", Vasconic, Burushaski and Dené-Yeniseian (Sumerian and a slew of unclassified ancient languages such as Hurrian, Hattian and Eteocretan are often included as well). Much like Nostratic's inclusion of "Altaic", some of the families mentioned here don't even exist (there's no such thing as "Caucasian" for example, you can divide this into three separate families).

    While the research put forth to support Dené-Caucasian's validity is somewhat more serious than that on which Nostratic's supposed validity is based, Dené-Caucasian is just a potpourri into which all languages that could not be squeezed into Nostratic were lumped. Václav Blažek is also a proponent of "Dené-Caucasian" BTW, that's one of the reasons why you should take what he says with a few kilos of salt...

    Now that I've explained what "Dené-Caucasian" comprises, can someone please explain how R1b ended up being simultaneaously "Sino-Caucasian" and Turkic? I mean, in the framework of "Dené-Caucasian"/"Sino-Caucasian", Turkic is Altaic and therefore Nostratic, ergo not "Sino-Caucasian". The two are mutually exclusive, therefore the claim is self-defeating.

    I find it amazing that a fringe crackpot like Anatole Klyosov, managed to publish that many papers. Of course he was never published in a serious, credible academic journal like Nature, but still, you'd think, that since he got the chance to be published at least somewhere, he would put some effort and thought into being as scientific (meaning, accurate) as possible with his hypotheses.
    I don't know if you've seen it but Elhaik just released a new paper where he basically repeats his crazy theory about Ashkenazi Jews being Khazars, the worst part is that it got through the peer review process.
    Last edited by Semitic Duwa; 2017-07-02 at 16:29.

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