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Thread: Y-DNA in Iron Age Poland137 days old

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioterus View Post
    You mean... a Gothic Vader (Vader = Father)




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    I1-M253 frequencies in some populations:

    Kashubians --------- 13,06% (35/268)
    Greater Poles ------- 10,45% (21/201)
    Lusatian Sorbs ------ 9,76% (12/123)
    Kociewie ----------- 8,23% (13/158)
    Kurpie ------------- 6,96% (11/158)
    Upper Silesians ------ 6,25% (3/48)
    Lesser Poles -------- 5,66% (12/212)
    Mazovian nobility --- 5,48% (8/146)
    Wrocław ----------- 4,04% (4/99)
    Last edited by Litvin; 2017-07-07 at 14:11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    I1-M253 frequencies in some populations:

    Kashubians --------- 13,06% (35/268)
    Greater Poles ------- 10,45% (21/201)
    Lusatian Sorbs ------ 9,76% (12/123)
    Kociewie ----------- 8,23% (13/158)
    Kurpie ------------- 6,96% (11/158)
    Upper Silesians ------ 6,25% (3/48)
    Lesser Poles -------- 5,66% (12/212)
    Mazovian nobility --- 5,48% (8/146)
    Wrocław ----------- 4,04% (4/99)

    I-M253

    Sweden: Västra Götaland ~ 52%
    Sweden nation-wide ~38%
    Russia Kostroma (former Finno-Ugric Merja settlement) ~ 11.3%
    Ukraine Khmelnitsky (approximately west in former western Podolia) ~ 6.1%

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M253

    If we could explain Goth settlements responsible for bringing M253 to Podolia, then why would Kostroma region have that much M253?

    Kostroma region : https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ko...9!4d43.9541103

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    Dawni królowie Gothorum stali się chłopami:



    Za: Czekanowski, "Wstęp do historii Słowian", 1957.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    Dawni królowie Gothorum stali się chłopami:



    Za: Czekanowski, "Wstęp do historii Słowian", 1957.
    Maybe it's time for the return of the kings:




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    Previously I laughed at Afenko's claim of Gothic origin, but I am not so sure anymore:

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Stone
    I took a shot at a Z63 SNP test of kit 228539 said to be a Crimean Goth descendant (currently in the Eastern Europe project) based on the similarity of his first 12 markers to my own kit. Afenko's result has come back derived Z63+. It appears there was at least some participation of Z63+ in the Goth migrations during Roman times. I read elsewhere that the Goth homeland, traditionally thought of as Sweden, may actually be on the continent. Given Z63's sparse distribution in Scandinavia proper, perhaps a continental origin looks more promising? Paul Stone Kit N10705
    See also here:

    Our project tested two people who are descendants of the Crimean Goths, this kit № 228539 Afenko and kit № 228541 Aslanov. Their haplogroup (I1-M253) was determined in the course of scientific research laboratory Balanovsky.


    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    Crimean Gothia was conquered by the Khazars in the early 8th century, and later in the 8th century was the center of an unsuccessful Gothic revolt against Khazaria led by Bishop John of Gothia.
    Ruins of the supposed capital of Crimean Goths:





    I visited this place, before Russians took over my inheritance in 2014.
    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2017-07-07 at 17:22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugevit View Post
    I-M253

    Sweden: Västra Götaland ~ 52%
    Sweden nation-wide ~38%
    Russia Kostroma (former Finno-Ugric Merja settlement) ~ 11.3%
    Ukraine Khmelnitsky (approximately west in former western Podolia) ~ 6.1%

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M253

    If we could explain Goth settlements responsible for bringing M253 to Podolia, then why would Kostroma region have that much M253?

    Kostroma region : https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ko...9!4d43.9541103
    Ask Finns, they have some theories in this regard:

    Mysterious Ancient Sepulchers Discovered under Staraya Ryazan

    Researchers suppose they belonged to an ancient civilization that appeared long before the Slavic population. Experts call these tribes Ryazan-Okski and attribute them to the Volga-Finnish branch of Finno-Ugric peoples.

    Initially the archeologists thought the tribes had come here from the East. However the traces of material culture of Ryazan-Okski tribes are indicative of their relation to the German tribes of Goths. This likeness can be found both in details of national costume and their weapons. Besides, the researchers managed to establish that heads of Ryazan-Okski tribes had worn crowns of almost the same type as Gothic kings. On the assumption of this one can assume that the local tribes were in a military alliance with the Goths.

    Till date it is not clear what happened to the Ryazan-Okski civilization. Once it just disappeared, and yet, its traces long remained in the history of Ryazan.
    Also:

    The Mordvinians already are mentioned by Jordanes, who reports that they were subjected to Ostrogothic king Ermanaric.
    Merja lived not that far from Mordva:

    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2017-07-07 at 17:21.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wojewoda View Post
    Ask Finns, they have Mysterious Ancient Sepulchers Discovered under Staraya Ryazan

    Researchers suppose they belonged to an ancient civilization that appeared long before the Slavic population. Experts call these tribes Ryazan-Okski and attribute them to the Volga-Finnish branch of Finno-Ugric peoples.

    Initially the archeologists thought the tribes had come here from the East. However the traces of material culture of Ryazan-Okski tribes are indicative of their relation to the German tribes of Goths.
    Certain Russians have another theory about people living in Ryzan region.

    The region to which Finns refer was settled by people known in historic chronicles as Meshera, who spoke Volgaic Finnic related to languages of Erzya, Moksha and likely Merja. Erzya
    were Meshera’s geographic neighbours. Further up Oka river was ancient Baltic settlement with abandance of Baltic hydronyms and Baltic archaeological cultures.

    In literature the language of these people is known as Dnieper-Oka, eastern peripheral Baltic, dnieper baltic . This is
    in the region of upper Dniepr (eastern Belarus & Smolensk), upper western Dvina (northern Belarus and Smolensk, and southern Pskov), Desna (the very north-east of Ukraine& south-eastern Belarus) , upper Oka – border of Belarus, north-eastern Ukraine and western Russia, and middle Oka (western Russia)
    Article on Dnieper-Okskii language in Russian
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94...B7%D1%8B%D0%BA

    Because Erzya have plenty R1a1-Z280 ~50%+ some suggest middle & upper Oka Balts migrated down Oka river into Meshera and Erzya settlements. So Erzya may have ancient Baltic ancestors.

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    I don't know what you are talking about. Finnish I1 clades are from Southern Sweden, Denmark and Germany, not from Poland or Russia.
    Blog: http://terheninenmaa.blogspot.fi/, with essence "Believe me, or I'll nuke you".

    H39 - Thracia 1650 BC, Hungary 5000 BC
    I1 - Transdanubia 5000 BC

    Three simple facts about Finns:
    1. Baltic Finnic languages (including Finnish) never came from the Volga basin along with ancestors of present-day Finns.
    2. Finnish I1 (around 30% of all Finns) has Germanic roots from the late Bronze Age or the early Iron Age.
    3. As to the Finnish prehistory we have no evidences about any Iron Age (or later) east-to-west migration, but many unquestionable evidences about west-to-east migrations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemminkäinen View Post
    I don't know what you are talking about. Finnish I1 clades are from Southern Sweden, Denmark and Germany, not from Poland or Russia.
    Wiki states that Tehran has around 35% of I. Iran also has highest diversity and proportion of basal clades of I. But that's a dated study. There are also loads of I in north Caucases. So maybe I carriers migrated through Caucases to Volga from where Proto-Finnic brought I1a to Estonia, Kostroma, Karelia, Finland, and further to Gotland, while some I carriers migrated to central Europe.
    How is that for a made up hypothesis?

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