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Thread: Golodomor/Holodomor [split] //mod782 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioterus View Post
    The thing is, Taras Shevchenko Has never been antipolish, this fierce murderous antipolish sentiment of UON/ UPA had to be a mechanism well oiled by some external support. The fact that Ukrainians or Belurussian living in interbellum Poland had it safer and wealthier to ones living under Soviet rule, yet it was Poles so savagely murdered by Western Ukrainians makes it all even more suspicious.

    BTW: which language did Shevchenko wrote this?
    That's earliest version of modern literary Ukrainian language. Beautiful language.

    But modern day Ukraine was made of different regions - western Ukraine that was part of Poland and Austro-Hungary; Chernivtsi that was part of Romania at some stage. Southern and south-eastern Ukraine that were settled in 19th century by Russians, Ukrainians, and everyone else after the defeat of Crimean Khanate.

    Shevchenko wrote and spoke a dialect the was spoken in Kiev governate - what is present day Kyiv, Cherkasy, Poltava regions. The dialects of these regions formed a base for modern literary Ukrainian language.

    ----

    Soldiers of Wehrmacht were forgiven by people in most countries. Wehrmacht soldiers were young, conscripted not responsible for terrible crimes

    As for UON/ UPA ...Ethnic based SS collaborators or any organisations having affiliation with SS were the lowest scum killing children, women and elderly. They were responsible for most crimes killing women and children in their very own villages.

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  4. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugevit View Post
    Soldiers of Wehrmacht were forgiven by people in most countries. Wehrmacht soldiers were young, conscripted not responsible for terrible crimes
    That's a common misconception this good Wehrmacht Vs. Evil SS. There were no good German units during WWII. All brutal, arrogant and hell bent for blood.

    War crimes of the Wehrmacht were those carried out by the German armed forces during World War II. While the SS (in particular the SS-Totenkopfverbände, Einsatzgruppen and Waffen-SS) of Nazi Germany was the organization most responsible for the genocidal killing of the Holocaust, the regular armed forces represented by the Wehrmacht committed war crimes of their own, particularly on the Eastern Front in the war against the Soviet Union.
    and the IEEE Milestone for breaking the Enigma Code goes to... Polish Cipher Bureau 1932-39

    “We know each other,” he agreed. “They say that you follow in my steps.”
    “I go my own way. But you, you had never, until just now, looked behind you. You turned back today for the first time.”
    Geralt remained silent. Tired, he had nothing to say. “How... How will it happen?” he asked her at last, coldly and without emotion. “I will take you by the hand,” she replied, looking him straight in the eye. “I will take you by the hand and lead you across the meadow, through a cold and wet fog.” “And after? What is there beyond the fog?” “Nothing,” she replied, smiling. “After that, there is nothing.”
    ― Andrzej Sapkowski
    Świat się zmienia, słońce zachodzi, a wódka się kończy [The world is changing, sun is setting and we're running out of Vodka.]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioterus View Post
    That's a common misconception this good Wehrmacht Vs. Evil SS. There were no good German units during WWII. All brutal, arrogant and hell bent for blood.
    Maybe it's misconception the examples I know show that SS and those who had affiliation with SS were most criminal and murderous.

    Khatyn (not be confused with one in Smolensk where Polish officers were excecuted) consisted of women , children and elderly were burnt. It was Polish-Belarusian village.


    ---

    Khatyn or Chatyń was a village of 26 houses and 156 inhabitants in Belarus, in Lahoysk Raion, Minsk Region, 50 km away from Minsk. On 22 March 1943, the entire population of the village was massacred by the Schutzmannschaft Battalion 118 of Ukrainische Hilfspolizei. The battalion was formed in July 1942 in Kiev and was made up mostly of Ukrainian nationalist collaborators from Western Ukraine and Hiwis,[1][2][3] assisted by the Dirlewanger Waffen-SS special battalion.


    ----

    You can also find who were responsible for Volyn messacre. Those were not Wehrmacht soldiers.
    Last edited by Rugevit; 2017-07-28 at 19:49.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioterus View Post
    That's a common misconception this good Wehrmacht Vs. Evil SS. There were no good German units during WWII. All brutal, arrogant and hell bent for blood.
    In Greece, 300.000 people died because of the Famine that the Nazis caused by stealing everything, while the German army killed 20.000 people. To get the picture just think that the Bulgarians which occupied only a small part of Greece killed 40.000... While the Greek civil war that followed got 160.000 people killed.

    My point is not that they were "good" but that it depends on what "front" we are talking about.
    Last edited by ageladakos; 2017-07-28 at 20:53.

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    Harvest of Despair: The Unknown Holocaust (1983).



    ^ This documentary is pretty rare. Only one left in stock, so buy it quick.

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    Well, my grandmother lived through German occupation, Wermacht particularly. She always tells how good and generous they were, always sharing food with them, and even chocolate. For Italians, she says they were rude and brutal.
    And there were actually three Holodomors. 1921-23, 1932-33, and 1946-47. My grandmother survived the last one, barely because she and her older sister (seven and eight years old) were illegally sent to their mother's uncle who held a good position in kolhoz and his wife was a kindegarden teacher. So skin and bones, their mom sent them to another region, and thanks God they were not catched, and spent some years there gaining weight. Her 12-year old brother decided to head to Latvia, but was stopped on the train by commies and sent back.
    Yes, there was hunger in other areas of Soviet Union too, but just check the ''Law of Five Spikelets''. Holodomor WAS a genocide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ageladakos View Post
    Educate yourself by reading this.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

    It is absolutely normal for them to be "neo-nazis" because the soviets exterminated some 5-7 million of their population during peace-time, and then occupied them like the rest of eastern Europe for several decades, and then played their post-soviet mafia-style pseudopolitics.
    Only just noticed this:-

    Agel, I fear my intended irony did not transmit although the quotes around "neo-nazis" should have helped. I have some awareness of the deaths involved and why joining the Waffen SS was preferable to annihilation by the Reds
    Quote Originally Posted by mary
    There was no poverty in the Soviet time. It was only in the 80's that it started to happen due to incompetent leadership. People in the Soviet Union lived better than Americans do today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ageladakos View Post

    Beginning in 1928 as part of The Five Year Plan (1928-1933), independent farmers were forced to give up to the state without compensation their private land, livestock, and equipment. The more well-to-do farmers, labelled as kurkuls (kulaks) and leaders in the villages, were targeted by the Soviet government as "anti-soviet, unwanted elements". They were systematically destroyed by deportations to Siberia, concentration camps, and or suffered firing squads.

    Once they were disposed of, the remaining farmers were dealt with. Any opposition to collectivization was met by brutal force as Secret Police (OGPU) and Red Army units were sent to villages to collect, not only the grain quota set by Moscow, but eventually any food found in individual households. The borders of Ukraine were sealed, so as to prevent any food imports. To ensure that Ukrainian farmers did not leave their villages to seek relief in the cities, the Soviet government instituted a system of passports so that no one could travel without permission. They executed those who tired to obtain food from the fields, and imprisoned those who attempted to flee to the cities or beyond Ukraine’s borders. Entire populations of villages died from induced starvation, one third blacklisted, cordoned off from supplies, for bringing in too little grain for the state In the meantime, wheat collected in government-owned bins was either sent abroad for export, rotted from mismanagement, or was used for the production of alcohol. To ensure compliance with the strategy of using "food as a weapon", and to minimize any sympathy for the suffering of the local population, Stalin replaced Ukrainians in key positions with non-Ukrainians in the Ukrainian Government. On the collective farms, those farmers who survived became little better than slave labourers, with few rights or privileges on land cultivated by their ancestors, which had served as the “breadbasket of Europe” for centuries before.
    This so retarded Soviet agriculture that by the 1960s USSR was importing grain from North America much of it grown by the descendants of Ukrainian peasants who'd emigrated in late 19th C.
    However I have recently read that Russia is now exporting grain again so there must have been a few changes for the better.
    Quote Originally Posted by mary
    There was no poverty in the Soviet time. It was only in the 80's that it started to happen due to incompetent leadership. People in the Soviet Union lived better than Americans do today.

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